RE: Tugging on Superman's Cape

[Arlen -dot- P -dot- Walker -at- jci -dot- com]

>Rhetoric is used
>to win an argument: the object of this list is not for one or other "side"
>to "win", but for all of us to learn more. It's a discussion, not a
>contest.

Hmmm. In the words of Inigo Montoya, "I don' thin' that word means what you
thin' it means..."

First definition of rhetoric:
"The art or study of using language effectively and persuasively."

Second definition:
"Skill in using language effectively and persuasively."

Third definition:
"A style of speaking or writing, especially the langauge of a particular
subject: 'fiery political rhetoric'.

Fourth definition:
Verbal communication; discourse.

Buried down in a subcase of the third definition is perhaps what you are
looking for, but its location on the list of definitions means it certainly
isn't what one would normally expect when encountering that word. I don't
see why someone would choose that definition based on what I've seen of the
word's use so far, unless one was trying to "spin" a particular discussion
in one's favor, that is.

I think we're all interested in using language effectively and we're here
for verbal communication and discourse, so yes, I think we *are* all
interested in rhetoric on this list. We may not be interested in
argumentative folks who'll say anything to make a point, but that shouldn't
be confused with rhetoric, which has a long and noble history, and which,
in point of fact, is how most of us learned what we know (or think we know)
today.

The fuss makes me wonder something: if we're truly not here to win, but
rather to learn, why are we so interested in silencing or at least putting
down someone who has (judging from public testimony on the subject) caused
many people on this list to think, which is surely an essential step in
learning?

Opinions are like feet: everyone has two and they all stink. But expressing
an incorrect opinion is often the shortest route to the truth; I can't know
I'm wrong until someone demonstrates it to me. When someone does, I learn.
Maybe I've never thought about a particular advantage or drawback to
something I do every day. When I post it here, and someone calls me on it,
I stop and re-evaluate; in other words, I learn.

If we're not allowed to dispute, we'll never progress. As my old grandma
used to say, "if you ain't making waves, the boat ain't moving."

Have fun,
Arlen
Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department

DNRC 224

Arlen -dot- P -dot- Walker -at- JCI -dot- Com
----------------------------------------------
In God we trust; all others must provide data.
----------------------------------------------
Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone.
If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Develop HTML-based Help with Macromedia Dreamweaver! (STC Discount.)
**NEW DATE/LOCATION!** January 16-17, 2001, New York, NY.
http://www.weisner.com/training/dreamweaver_help.htm or 800-646-9989.

Take XML and Tech Writing courses online!  Our instructor-led courses
(4-6 hrs/wk) give you "hands on" experience at your convenience. STC members
get 20% off!  http://www.online-learning.com/index.html.
---
You are currently subscribed to techwr-l as: archive -at- raycomm -dot- com
To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-techwr-l-obscured -at- lists -dot- raycomm -dot- com
Send administrative questions to ejray -at- raycomm -dot- com -dot-  Visit 
http://www.raycomm.com/techwhirl/ for more resources and info.