Re: Act versus pass (WAS Disp versus App-Which One? ) (slightly OT/rant)

Subject: Re: Act versus pass (WAS Disp versus App-Which One? ) (slightly OT/rant)
From: Barbara Yanez <BarbaraYanez -at- cogentsystems -dot- com>
To: "TECHWR-L" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- raycomm -dot- com>
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 11:14:16 -0800

Rebecca Stevenson wrote:

>The alternative plan of action would be to lobby your local
educational system
>and try to change things there. Has anyone attempted this?


Yes - I did. For about 8 years - as both a prof and a Director of ESL in
community colleges. All the rage in ESL at that time was to NEVER EVER
UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES use grammar, based on the findings of Steven Krashen
out at USC. He wrote several books and articles whose premise was that
people acquire language better under a 'natural' approach as opposed to a
'grammar-based' approach. The 'natural' approach - while it has <some> merit
- to me, ranks right up there with Whole Language.

Unfortunately Krashen was misquoted; he was speaking mainly about teaching
children, not adults; adults have a completely different cognitive make-up.
Moreover, adults are put off if you only play games and do activities. They
say "We're not learning anything; we're just playing." And adults will ask
you "WHY is this so? WHY do you say x and not y?" in which case you HAVE to
use <some> grammar.

Later, we learned that apparently Krashen himself is monolingual.

Other studies came out subsequently - nicknamed "Krashen Bashin'" which
stated that generally you do need both - grammar and real-life activities -
in order to learn a second language. I admit, there is some merit to
Krashen's work, because many people study a foreign language for years and
know all ABOUT the language but cannot speak it. But I don't believe Krashen
ever intended for his findings to be carried to the extremes of thinking
that they were in the field of ESL.

I worked at community colleges (as prof, prog coordinator, and director) in
which grammar had become a dirty word among instructors. Students taught at
such colleges left courses speaking a pidginized, broken form the language.
Moreover, they would 'fossilize' on this form of the language- get 'stuck'
there-and not know why. It was, in my opinion, the inattention to the
importance of form and structure.

At any rate, everywhere I went, I tried to let instructors and
administrators know the importance of balancing both grammar and real-life,
but it was a lost cause. I finally realized I was a 'one-woman band' and
that it was hopeless. So yes, I tried, but I realized that the problem was
bigger than me.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barbara Yanez - Sr. Technical Writer
Cogent Systems, Inc., World Leader
in Biometric Identification
(fingerprint, palm print)
and Other Law Enforcement Technology

209 Fair Oaks Avenue
South Pasadena, CA 91030
(626) 799-8090 x 419
http://www.cogentsystems.com
byanez -at- cogentsystems -dot- com
--------------------------------------------------
Editor - Inkspot Technical Writer's Resource
http://www.inkspot.com/genres/tech/
barbara -at- inkspot -dot- com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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