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> For those of us who aren't skilled negotiators, if we blurt out a figure
> _first_ even if it is high in the hopes of negotiating down to what we
> want/need, we artificially peg that upper limit. In other words, we will
> never know that we could have gotten more merely by _waiting_ for the
> company to name a figure _first_ ($55k) and then tweaking them up
> ($57k).
Some places will just see you as combative and suspicious if you won't
give them a salary number. Also, keep in mind that they hold many of the
cards. Your options are more limited. If they really want you, they will
negotiate. If you're just a warm body to fill a chair - then they won't
care and won't negotiate. But do you really want to work at a place where
you are just a warm body justifying a manager's existence?
Never tweak up in salary - always tweak down. Once you get a number in
their head they will NEVER go above it.
Its the inverse of buying a car. You never start at the MSRP and work
down, you start at the invoice price and work up. Well, now you are
selling the car, so you want to start them at the MSRP and work down.
> There is a big difference between $65k or $70k that you would use as the
> starting point for the negotiation and the $50k that they countered
> with. I'd be willing to venture that this difference is large enough for
> the company to not even counter with it, because they know you won't be
> happy (for long) working for so much less than you state you are worth,
> even if admittedly inflated.
Well, each situation is different and you have to assess it. If I *really*
liked a company and thought it was a tremendous opportunity, I would bid
closer to my ideal number or maybe even below it. I would also "remind"
the interviewer that my salary is negotiable.
However, if I was not terribly interested in the job, I would high-ball
and hope either for a miracle or them to just ignore me.
> The second problem coming to light from your example of haggling over a
> salary is that it implies more commitment to that employer than you
> might be prepared to give **at that point in time** still in the
> interview and could be tied to financial penalties.
Well, you have to be willing to make some kind of movement toward them. I
mean, if they take the time to interview you the least you can do is
answer their questions.
If you aren't willing to make ANY commitment to the company, why should
they make ANY commitment to hiring you.
> Ours is not a culture that haggles. We have lost the technique. It used
> to be that if you saw a dented can in a store, you could talk to someone
> with authority and say that this is damaged goods and, therefore, you
> shouldn't have to pay full price. Nowadays, as long as the bar code is
> still readable, you pay full price for that dented can of refried beans
> that gets dented further when the teenager throws it into your plastic
> bag.
I totally disagree. We ARE a culture that haggles. Its just many people
have been manipulated by an advertising-fueled culture that says "no
haggling." You can haggle ANYTHING. Just last week, I haggled down the
price on a huge TV set at Best Buy. The price tag was nicely printed with
$2599.00 (its an HDTV). I talked with the guy and then said "I'll give
you $2000 cash money to take it away." He fidgeted and babbled, but
eventually gave in. The kicker was I agreed to buy an extended warranty
which gave him a nice commission.
Haggling is the essence of capitalism. It always amazes me that people
will clip coupons and go to discount department stores to save a few
bucks, but when it comes to their salary, they clam up and won't haggle.
You are a product, and you need to sell yourself for as much as you can.
Forget the idyllic notions of a world where we all make exactly what we
want. That isn't the way it works. Getting a job is a game, and you either
play to win or you will lose.
> Negotiating on salary is much the same. Because we don't have the skills
> and it is an uncomfortable situation where we pray that our Right Guard
> is still holding up, we don't even try. We would rather demonstrate that
> we're nice and agreeable like we'll be once we're employed.
You can be nice and agreeable and still haggle over salary. Again, most
people will respect you more if you stand your ground and haggle.
Haggling does not mean you're an a-hole. You can haggle and be nice about
it. But you have to be willing to walk away from the table. If you're
desperate, and you don't stand by your argument, you won't get what you
want and you'll come off looking wimpy.
> Moreover, the company does not go out of its way to present an image
> that it can be flexible in its position. The offer letter is typed up
> and it is what it is. Any haggling over salary is seen as un-team-like
> and argumentative and can result in no offer letter making its way out
> of the laser printer.
Of course! That's the point. Its the same reason why car dealerships put
an official looking sticker on the window. Because it makes you think
there is no way to haggle. EVERYTHING can be haggled.
> If you're lucky, salary is negotiated with HR and not your future
> manager, so you'll be able to be more hard-nosed about not naming
> figures and making them sweat.
I disagree, you're manager will more likely be able to see your skill and
accurately assess its value. A twit in HR will just compare you to a list
of tools you should know and knock off $5000 for each you don't know.
Haggle - its good for you.
Andrew Plato
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