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> I really, really don't want to get into a flame war over a topic that
> some of us feel very strongly about, so I'm just going to point out a
> few things and leave it at that.
Eric will probably squash this thread tomorrow anyways. We're totally off
topic. But, I'll throw in my last salvo before the gates close.
> Numerous studies have found that union jobs pay better, have better
> benefits, are safer health-wise, and, yes, less at risk of being
> laid-off or fired.
How about you cite some of those "numerous studies" I sure haven't read any.
As for pay better...now that is just absurd. You're going to tell me Michael
Dell would have been better off joining a union and making a nice $65,000 a
year than starting a computer business in his dorm room.
Riiiiight.
> Any visitor to Europe can't fail to be impressed by the exhausting
> variety of small businesses catering to the tourist industry, and when
> your toilet overflows in Italy, you don't call the federal government.
You call an plumber who shows up 29 days later because he doesn't have to
compete with anybody because the government and various unions control,
licenses, and manage such trades. Just like socialized medicine. Sure,
everybody has it. Too bad you're sick today, the doctor won't be free until
March 2005, here, fill out this paperwork in the meantime and stuff your guts
back in.
Socialization kills customer service. When there is no incentive to work hard,
people don't! This isn't some crazy Andrew idea - its human nature.
As for people feeding off tourists, that is hardly a judge of the vibrancy of a
national economy.
> Look, differences in business formation policies have little to do with
> unionization. They're formed by culture, which also shape laws governing
> labor and capital.
Actually, how a business is formed, run, and managed has a lot to do with
unions. Businesses that consistently reward talent and creativity and terminate
those that underperform avoid unions because the employees can make more money
and have better jobs when they just do the work they were hired to do.
I just read a story today about SAS. A company that is privately held and
consistently ranks as one of the most desirable places to work....and they
don't have any unions. How do they do this?
They reward ingenuity, hard work, and creativity. They value employees and the
employees value their company. This results in satisfied customers.
Unions are all about adversarial relationships. The whole basis of a union is
the concept that "management" and "workers" must fight and struggle to get what
they want. Maybe this was a cool idea in 1917 for a pack of goateed commies,
but back here in the real world, unions are archaic and outdated. There are
better ways to run a business, and SAS is just one example that, apparently, is
working.
Why struggle and fight with management when you can both agree that the best
way to succeed is for everybody to work toward a common goal. If a company is
profitable and succeeds, then the people who got it there should be rewarded.
> The most highly-unionized country may be Germany, which also leads the
> world, technologically speaking, in numerous industries, including
> automobiles and environmental technologies. The industries that fueled
> the Japanese miracle were fully unionized (and the present failures of
> the Japanese economies have nothing to do with unionization). Cell phone
> technology is dominated by European companies, esp. Scandinavian.
The United States could drown all these countries in patents, discoveries, new
technologies, and investment. R&D spending in the US exceeds all of Europe
combined. Productivity in the US far exceeds all other nations. Our GDP is well
beyond all these countries. And the Japanese miracle collapsed and died decades
ago due to the corruption and insidious government subsidies to prop up failing
businesses and financial markets.
Let's see...I'll flip open the most recent issue of the Economist and check
some facts here.
Lookie here - unemployment data on page 88 for Q3-2002.
I guess Germany makes great cars (no disagreement there) as long as you have a
job to buy one. Thanks unions!
Look at this - prices and wages
US wages: 3.0%
Germany: 2.2%
Japan: 1.1%
Hmmmmm, maybe the economy isn't so bad after all.
Shhhhh, nobody tell Bush. He'll ruin it.
> Make that "the rewards of full-time employment" and I'll agree. That's
> why I like to work as a contractor. But I'm also in a union that helps
> me find writing contracts, negotiate improvements in them, and get paid
> when a client breaches them, and that lobbies to get the government off
> my back. In the last couple of years, the SF local sponsored legislation
> exempting hourly tech writers from loss of overtime pay and helped kill
> California legislation that could have flushed most independent
> contractors' businesses down the toilet. The union has joined several
> efforts to kill section 1706 of the Tax Reform Act of 1986, unsuccessful
> so far, while our LA local led a successful fight against requiring
> writers and similar at-home workers to pay exorbitant city license fees.
And those same unions have also supported lawsuits against corporations brought
by people who were sad because they couldn't attend the company Christmas party
because they were a contractor.
Thanks to these lawsuits, many firms have strict rules surrounding contractors.
People can't work more and 6 months, rates are capped, and some firms won't
even deal directly with contractors. Everybody has to go through an agency -
which has to take a bigger cut now thanks to increased insurance requirements,
paperwork, and tax risks. The net result has been: lower pay for contractors,
less opportunities, people out of work, and a general mistrust of independent
contractors.
And what about employers getting their fair shake when contractors breech a
contract. Remember, forever "Our Hero" stories about the brave contractor who
was victimized by the evil corporate scum there is an inverse story about a
lazy contractor who would not do they work he/she was hired to do, and was
summarily dismissed and not paid.
Andrew Plato
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