FW: The debate that won't die (was RE: Remember secretaries? (was RE: Proof that content is more important than style))

["Barbara Yanez" <BarbaraYanez -at- cogentsystems -dot- com>]

Hey there

Point well taken. I for one realized later in life that my lack of ability with math probably had much more to do with the math teachers I got than my innate or not so innate ability. I only realized this when I had the responsibility for hiring math teachers foisted on me at one point in my career (it is a long story - one of those administrative decisions made for cost cutting measures). I watched countless math teachers - one after the other - do demonstration classes as part of the hiring process. It was then that I realized that there really are relatively few people out there who can teach math well. I live in a metropolis (Los Angeles and greater area ) and one would think that there would be a relatively large supply of more enlightened, sophisticated and very expert type people in a metropolis - (in other words, it is not like we life in some boonie town). Also, this school is near JPL and Cal Tech - so that is all the more reason you would expect top level. What I found was, time and again, math teachers on the whole simply could not teach well. (Of course there were some, but surprisingly few, in my experience). By that I mean, it is important, particularly for math, and for other subjects as well to, as much as possible, teach in a context. Additionally, one must be able to see things from the learners' point of view. Almost every math teacher came in and just started solving problems, with no context. It reminded my of my elementary school and high school days! And I too was raised in a middle-class suburb with supposedly excellent schools. So,  came to realize that, had I had better math teachers, I don't believe I would have struggled with math all my life. 

That being said, while I am all too familiar with the phenomenon you mention, I will say that, percentage-wise, there are more good, competent English teachers than there are math teachers, so the phenomenon you mention is not as prevalent in the English field. There are many reasons for this that I won't go into here. It has to do mainly with the "prototype" of the type of person who chooses a math field rather than an English field. 

If I do say so myself, I am/was a d*** good teacher (sorry for the shameless plug but it fits here because of what I have to say.) I am one of those people who has a knack for teaching - I have that "teaching affect." I have come to believe that one is born with it (my own, prejudiced opinion) - I don't believe it can be learned. (Ties in to the point we were making before: Others can go to school to learn to teach, and can be good, but in my opinion, that 'teaching affect' only some possess - and I don't believe that can be learned). I was good at teaching even when I first started - students were begging to be in my class over other teachers who were much more senior. When I first started teaching, I didn't even have any training in it yet - the training came after, (concurrently in my earlier years) - and for some reason I was just good at it. When I did get the MA in Education, I felt like I was really just learning the names for things that had already come naturally to me/I had already figured out. I cannot tell you the number of students and administrators who told me that I could make things clear and bring students to a level that other teachers could not. 

Note also that I was an administrator (who also taught classes) during the final 5 years of my teaching years, so I had to watch teachers regularly, as part of their performance reviews. I also had to watch countless demonstration classes of teachers I was considering for hire. So I was speaking from a more general, collective experience and not just from my own experience. 


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DIck writes:


You, Anita, and everyone else are ignoring the elephant in the room. Yes, there are differences between individuals in terms of their talents and their abilities to learn different types of material. But there are also huge differences in the abilities of teachers.

 I'm not saying that the current and former teachers on the list are incompetent. I'm just saying some teachers may have a better success rate than others.



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