Re: Enchanted Development Organizations Was: Re: Expectations too high?

[Tony Markos <ajmarkos -at- yahoo -dot- com>]

Properly done analysis (including Task Analysis) is
all about postponing detail until the appropriate
time. 

Part of our difference, John and others, may be
timing.  If I already have my integrated understanding
of essential tasks, then learning the design details
is Ok, and may be necessary (depending upon user
needs).  The problem is that, it has been my
experience - and mine is very typical - that essential
tasks are very seldom, if ever, discussed in design
meetings.

Do I address the issue by trying to steer the
conversation towards essential tasks?  I have worked
as a TW, and Systems Analyst (and Tester).  When I am
lead Systems Analyst, I do - I am noted for this. 
When my title is TW, then, no I don't.  If you work
for a progressive organization that allows TWs to lead
Designers AND you want the responsibility without the
bucks, go for it.  Here in Cleveland, TWs at designer
meetings are mainly to be seen and not heard.

Postponing detail is critical; I have seen more
projects fail from "bottom-up" (i.e., up-front design
detail focused) efforts than anything else.  What
inevitably happens is that one gets locked into a
techie way of seeing things, and he/she can not pull
himself/herself out of it - even when it is critical
to do such.  I have seen this time-and-again.

How I wish it where different.  I would much rather
take a "jump into an ocean of detail" approach.  It
feels like a so much more safer way to go.  

Tony Markos

P.S. Yes they have!

--- John Posada <jposada01 -at- yahoo -dot- com> wrote:

Tony Markos:

Unfortunately, going to developer meetings is
always an excercise in jumping into an ocean of design
detail.  It is unfortunate: everyone is unsure of..

John Posada:
 
It is their meeting. They are calling it for a
purpose...to discuss details. However, what is there
to prevent you from participating in your own way.
What is there to prevent you from throwing in a
well-chosen "Why?" or "How?"

Tony Markos:

...plays it safe by limiting his/her conversation to
the very concrete.  This is a waste of time.  It is
much..

John Posada:

For you, maybe. I, for one, WANT to hear the concrete.
I want to know the facts. I want to know the details.
I also have the ability to diregard what doesn't apply
to me and to retain what
does. I'm a "selective" sponge...I only absorb what
applies to what I do and I have the ability to know
the difference.

Tony Markos:

2.)  Avoid design considerations until you have a
understanding of the system's underlying (i.e.,design
independent) logic.  This is a basic analysis

John Posada:

Avoid nothing. What you learn now may be premature
and you won't know hat it means. However...at some
point, it will fall into place. It might be 8:30
pm...from your office will come "ah HA! NOW I
understand what that meant!"

Tony Markos:

...disjointed HOW - to any degree of rigor - are
claiming that they can do what Systems Analysts have
known for decades can not done.

John Posada:

Have they?



		
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