RE: Value of giving up numbering in Word?

["Chris Vickery" <cvickery -at- arenasolutions -dot- com>]

This seems, and no offense intended, kind of goofy.

A procedure has sequential steps. Not to number them is confusing.

I can certainly see the efficacy, though, of not numbering paragraphs,
as one would in a legal or Mil spec document. Or not numbering chapters.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: techwr-l-bounces+cvickery=arenasolutions -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
[mailto:techwr-l-bounces+cvickery=arenasolutions -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com]
On Behalf Of Leonard C. Porrello
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 10:02 AM
To: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
Subject: RE: Value of giving up numbering in Word?

To avoid autonumbering problems, I do not number procedures. Instead, I
use a unique arrow icon so that users know, "this is a procedure". I
also ensure that no procedure is longer than a half dozen or so steps.
When I have steps within steps, I Information Map them. Otherwise, it's
too difficult for the eye to keep track of where it is in the process.
So far, this is working out swimmingly. Another benefit of using a
graphic instead of a number is that I can reuse just segments of
procedures. Where you have a numbered procedure, say steps 1 - 7, you
can't pull out just steps 2, 3, and 4 to use them as steps 4, 5, and 6
on another page. Using icons, I can.

Until recently, I had chapter numbers in my PDFs. I removed them, and
the upshot is that my docs are much less intimidating at first glance.
Nothing shouts, "I am eruditely technical" as well as chapter
numbers--and that's not the message I want to send my readers. They need
to feel, "Welcome. I am here to help." The reason I included the numbers
originally was to ensure that it was understood that, say, section 2.3.3
was a child of 2.3. With clearly distinguishable headers, however, that
is no longer necessary.

Leonard C. Porrello
SoleraTec LLC
www.soleratec.com
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: techwr-l-bounces+leonard -dot- porrello=soleratec -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
[mailto:techwr-l-bounces+leonard -dot- porrello=soleratec -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- c
om] On Behalf Of Tim Mantyla
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 7:09 AM
To: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
Subject: Value of giving up numbering in Word?

I've been beating against a brick wall on numbering too. I've gotten
some 
instructions and ideas from list members and they are too hard to do or 
take too much time to do with repetitive keystrokes, copying, F9s, etc. 
Some i haven't tried because I'm too burned out on the others that
seemed 
easy but really took hours to figure out, try, and I'm still testing in 
Doc-To-Help, which I don't know how it will affect them going through
it. 
It seems at first glance to have changed them to C1H numbering from SEQ 
fields originally, which could be problematic.

This issue has taken up way too much of my time, and my supervisors are 
pushing for completion while this issue hangs over me, sucking up more
and 
more time.  I'm considering either:

 - manually numbering the many lists of instructions (maybe 20-30 lists
of 
5-19 lines of instructions?) or
 - doing away with numbered instructions altogether (probably 
quicker--just reformat them).


Does anyone avoid numbering in a list of many--from 5 to 15 or 
more--instructions? How is that working out? 

What is the great value of numbering instructions anyway? Is there a 
realistic, evidence-based concern that the reader will lose his way, or
is 
this just a convention that tech writers do without considering the 
alternative--not using numbered lists at all?


Got some instructions on macros and SEQ and LISTNUM in the techwhirl and

other archives. It took me a few hours to learn and try the SEQ fields, 
and I had limited success, except that the numbers aren't formatted the 
way I want them...e.g., like 1) or 1.  They just show up as "1" and "2" 
right nest to the text. I'm just getting burned out on all the research 
and testing needed to implement this whole thing. I really feel
frustrated 
about it, and angry that Microsoft can't just get it right after so many

years.

The Shauna Kelly thing is way too involved to try. It's way too much
work 
to get this to work, it should just be a setting adjustment in Word and 
have it STAY, ROVER, STAY. This is not a dog with its own free will,
it's 
a computer program designed to do what we command it to do.

I just want something SIMPLE, QUICK and it ALWAYS WORKS in EVERY 
CIRCUMSTANCE. Which is why I'm thinking of not dealing w/ numbering.
Don't 
do it, no hassles.

Just look at the Vast Mess of Alternative Solutions available. Who knows

what works and what doesn't, and why? Who has time to test all these?
With 
all this controversy in public on the Internet, why isn't Word just
fixed 
already?

Here are some solution excerpts:
----------

Subject: Re: Word Templates & Numbered Lists - VBA? SEQ?
From: dmbrown -at- brown-inc -dot- com
To: "TECHWR-L" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 14:05:00 -0700

> need help with making sure numbered lists work properly.

Several of us have posted instructions on using SEQ fields to produce
absolutely dependable numbered lists. Unfortunately, I can't find ANY of
them in the Techwr-L archives <:( so here's one I posted...

======================================================================
Here's how to get solid numbered lists every time:

For the first item in a NUMBERED list:

{ SEQ numlist \# "0" \r 1 \* MERGEFORMAT }

...
----------
Subject: Re: Word Templates & Numbered Lists - VBA? SEQ?
From: suzy -dot- davis -at- doi -dot- vic -dot- gov -dot- au
To: "TECHWR-L" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:28:41 +1000
Hi Ardene

Pre-XP I used SEQ numbering, and developed a SEQ numbering tool in VBA
(with a friend who was a better developer at the time) which inserts the
SEQ number field for the selected level to the selected paragraph(s).
There is also a button which removes the SEQ fields and associated
spaces
and tabs from selected paragraphs. And if the selection already has some
numbering, either SEQ fields or other is removes them and adds the 
selected
SEQ field level.
I worked on a lot of tender responses so I loved using the SEQ field 
method
because it gave me control, and I liked it better when it became a more
automated process.

Since XP I discovered that if you build your outline number styles
through
the user interface they can be reasonably stable as long as you define
the
numbering via the level 1 style's numbering definition. (If you want me
to
elaborate more on that give me a yell).

But the most stable way since XP is to build your styles and outline
lists
via VBA, and I have now developed a tool which does this. You store all
your style style and numbering definitions in a spreadsheet, and I've 
found
this works very well, and is very stable. Helps with managing clients
template definitions as well.

If you are interested in either of these tools, please contact me 
off-list.

regards
Suzy Davis
Create Space Pty Ltd
e: suzy -dot- davis -at- createspace -dot- com -dot- au


WhittleseyA -at- dekalblibrary -dot- org 
Sent by: To: "TECHWR-L" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com> 
bounce-techwr-l-165345 -at- lists -dot- t cc: 
echwr-l.com Subject: Word Templates & Numbered Lists - VBA? SEQ? 


09/10/04 01:08 AM 
Please respond to WhittleseyA 

I'm developing a template in Word for a training manual, and need help
with making sure numbered lists work properly. I'm curious about how
people have done it so I don't have to reinvent the wheel. What's better
-
Word macros? VBA? SEQ fields?

I'm currently working in Word 2003 on Windows 2000.

I've read the MS Word MVP article on how lists work, but can't seem to
find anything on the web describing how people use various tools to do
this.

Thanks for your assistance.

Ardene Whittlesey

--------
From: "Stuart Burnfield" <slb -at- westnet -dot- com -dot- au>
Subject: Re: Seq field solution?
To: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
Message-ID: <380-2200834645428634 -at- westnet -dot- com -dot- au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1


I followed the advice on the Shauna Kelly site, and this page in
particular:
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numbering/OutlineNumbering.html

The Word MVPs site is also very good:
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Numbering.htm

No need for SEQ fields, and so far, so good.

Stuart
---------
These macros and SEQ field solutions look very time consuming, tried the

SEQ insert thing and it takes too many keystrokes with F9 just to insert

these.


I just want a simple solution.  Is there one? The best solution looks
like 
giving up numbering altogether.


Tim 

---------
> From: jopakent -at- comcast -dot- net
> Subject: Seq field solution?

> I've done this too many times to be beating my head on this AGAIN!
> 
> I thought I'd mastered Word's numbering "joy" to the extent that I'd
> be able to set up a simple set of Heading 1, 2, & 3 that would 
> number as 1.0, 1.1, & 1.1.1, but after a week of on again off again 
> performance I'm approaching ga-ga-land.
> 
> As this is a new gig and a new set of opportunities, my first 
> response to seeing that I am going to be working with Word and 
> nested, numbered headings was to do some Google searches on seq
fields. 
> 
> Alas, I didn't really find a solution that worked. I know that seq 
> fields work pretty well (we used em for numbering appendix figures 
> and tables in my last gig), but what I was hoping to find was 
> something that would be somewhat automatic once I set it up. I 
> thought I'd be able to define a numbering level, associate it with a
<snip>
> --
> J. Paul Kent 
> 206-383-0539
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 21
> Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 17:38:15 -0500
> From: "Dan Goldstein" <DGoldstein -at- riverainmedical -dot- com>
> Subject: RE: Seq field solution?
> To: <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Message-ID:
>    <0ADA9A22B5BC2147B360A22FD2BAD25C0104689C -at- RMGBEX01 -dot- rmg -dot- local>
> Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Sounds like a job for AutoNumLgl fields, which update automatically
> according to their place in the document hierarchy. I always use them
> for numbering headings (usually for figures and tables, too). Just as
> solid as SEQ fields, and you don't even have to press F9!
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jopakent
> > Subject: Seq field solution?
> > 
> > ... I thought I'd mastered Word's numbering "joy" to 
> > the extent that I'd be able to set up a simple set 
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