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RE: "Up with which I will not put" (was: RE: "and then, " or simply "then"?)
Subject:RE: "Up with which I will not put" (was: RE: "and then, " or simply "then"?) From:"Leonard C. Porrello" <Leonard -dot- Porrello -at- SoleraTec -dot- com> To:"Downing, David" <DavidDowning -at- users -dot- com>, "Odile Sullivan-Tarazi" <odile -at- mindspring -dot- com> Date:Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:01:40 -0700
Real. I was wondering if your statement would qualify as a variation.
;-)
Leonard
-----Original Message-----
From: Downing, David [mailto:DavidDowning -at- users -dot- com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:41 PM
To: Leonard C. Porrello; Odile Sullivan-Tarazi
Cc: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
Subject: RE: "Up with which I will not put" (was: RE: "and then," or
simply "then"?)
Ug! You watch-um what you say-um!
I assume that was a Latin phrase for "arguing from a position of
ignorance." Is that a real, official phrase or id you make it up.
-----Original Message-----
From: Leonard C. Porrello [mailto:Leonard -dot- Porrello -at- SoleraTec -dot- com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 3:35 PM
To: Downing, David; Odile Sullivan-Tarazi
Cc: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
Subject: RE: "Up with which I will not put" (was: RE: "and then," or
simply "then"?)
Argumentum ad ignorantiam?
Leonard
-----Original Message-----
From: techwr-l-bounces+leonard -dot- porrello=soleratec -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
[mailto:techwr-l-bounces+leonard -dot- porrello=soleratec -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- c
om] On Behalf Of Downing, David
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:51 AM
To: Odile Sullivan-Tarazi
Cc: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
Subject: RE: "Up with which I will not put" (was: RE: "and then," or
simply "then"?)
Okay, that didn't work either. Well, there MYST be an example of a
grammatically correct sentence that sounds less natural and more awkward
than a grammatically incorrect version. I'll probably think of it at
three o'clock in the morning.
-----Original Message-----
From: Odile Sullivan-Tarazi [mailto:odile -at- mindspring -dot- com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:38 PM
To: Downing, David
Cc: Odile Sullivan-Tarazi; techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
Subject: RE: "Up with which I will not put" (was: RE: "and then," or
simply "then"?)
No, it is not grammatically incorrect to split infinitives, just as
it is not grammatically incorrect to end on a preposition. Both of
these strategies are native to the language. Those "rules"
(nonrules, really) came long ago from Latin grammarians who were
attempting to impose the grammar of Latin upon the grammar of English.
"To boldly go" is precisely and exactly right, in English.
Odile
At 1:29 PM -0500 9/24/08, Downing, David wrote:
>Okay. Bad example. Let's try another one. It is grammatically incorrect
>to split infinitives. Yet, the phrase, "To boldly go where no man has
>gone before," is famous in cult classic TV history. I don't think that,
>"To go boldly where no man has gone before," would have sounded nearly
>as cool.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Odile Sullivan-Tarazi [mailto:odile -at- mindspring -dot- com]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:09 PM
>To: Downing, David
>Cc: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
>Subject: "Up with which I will not put" (was: RE: "and then," or simply
>"then"?)
>
>
>Actually, this sentence is *not* grammatically correct, nor does it
>illustrate the absurdity (though it purports to) one frequently finds
>oneself in by attempting to never end on a preposition. The phrase
>"to put up with" is a phrasal verb, and it must be kept intact.
>
>But it's still funny.
>
>
>
>Odile
>
>
>
>At 12:40 PM -0500 9/24/08, Downing, David wrote:
>>------------------------------
>>
><snip>
>>
>>But this reminds me of a famous example of a sentence that's
>>grammatically correct, yet sounds very awkward and unnatural. The
>>speaker was talking about ending a sentence with a preposition, and
>>said, "This is a practice up with which I will not put."
>>
>>I agree that glaringly bad grammar is disturbing, and that as writers,
>>we should always show others, by example, the correct way to do
things.
>>But when it gets to the point of writing statements that sound
>downright
>>unnatural, that's another story.
>>
>>David
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Leonard -dot- Porrello -at- soleratec -dot- com -dot-
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