Re: TECHWR-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 8
Subject:
Re: TECHWR-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 8
From:
Holly Deitelhoff <hdeitelhoff3 -at- gmail -dot- com>
To:
techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
Date:
Fri, 9 Sep 2011 08:15:26 -0500
In relation to the "or":
I write manuals for CNC machines, and where we have more than one method to
achieve the same end result, I'll state for the "operator/occupant" to
choose from one of the options, and direct them to the page on which that
method starts. With varying skill levels of the machinists, some need EVERY
step while others that have been using the machine only need guidance
because they understand the basic navigational features. By distinguishing
the methods into skill levels, the reader then establishes for themselves
which type of reader they are and know which method series to follow.
In relation to the "users"
Although I understand the correlation someone mentioned to drug addicts, the
readers understand that they are not drug addicts/users but that they are
the "functional user", and that those people who made the choice to purchase
whatever type of documentation to accompany any type of product is at an
understanding that they are making this purchasing decision on behalf of
others that will USE it. Now, if it is going to a company like a bank that
has customers and they are the active user, then as mentioned it becomes
specific to the brand and its audience's use.
HollyMae
Ingersoll Machine Tools
Tech Writer
On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 12:55 AM, <techwr-l-request -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives (reshma pendse)
> 2. TECHWR-L Premium Jobs, Events, and Announcements (INKtopia Admin)
> 3. RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives (McLauchlan, Kevin)
> 4. Re: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives (mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net)
> 5. RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives (McLauchlan, Kevin)
> 6. RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives (Combs, Richard)
> 7. Re: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives (mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net)
> 8. RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives (Combs, Richard)
> 9. Re: real books (Chris Morton)
> 10. RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives (Lynne Wright)
> 11. Re: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives (kafkascampi)
> 12. RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
> (Tim -dot- Slager -at- aciworldwide -dot- com)
> 13. RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives (McLauchlan, Kevin)
> 14. Re: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives (Ruth Sessions)
> 15. Re: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives (Chris Morton)
> 16. RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives (Lynne Wright)
> 17. earlier discussions of "user" (was: Grammar - The Gotcha
> Microsoft Gives) (Milan Davidovi?)
> 18. Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> (Donna McManus)
> 19. RE: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> (Dan Goldstein)
> 20. Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> (Richard L Hamilton)
> 21. Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> (Janice Gelb)
> 22. RE: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> (Mark Baker)
> 23. RE: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> (Porrello, Leonard)
> 24. RE: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> (Combs, Richard)
> 25. Re: earlier discussions of "user" (was: Grammar - The Gotcha
> Microsoft Gives) (Ruth Sessions)
> 26. Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> (Donna McManus)
> 27. Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> (Robert Lauriston)
> 28. Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> (Donna McManus)
> 29. Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> (Robert Lauriston)
> 30. Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> (Donna McManus)
> 31. publishing ebooks (Becca)
> 32. Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> (Robert Lauriston)
> 33. Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> (Lauren)
> 34. RE: publishing ebooks (David Grossman)
> 35. Re: publishing ebooks (Marguerite Krupp)
> 36. Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> (Donna McManus)
> 37. Re: publishing ebooks (Robert Lauriston)
> 38. Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> (Janice Gelb)
> 39. Re: publishing ebooks (Donna McManus)
> 40. Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> (Robert Lauriston)
> 41. Re: publishing ebooks (Robert Lauriston)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 13:02:39 +0530 (IST)
> From: reshma pendse <reshma_pendse -at- yahoo -dot- co -dot- in>
> To: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Subject: Re: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
> Message-ID:
> <1315467159 -dot- 95439 -dot- YahooMailClassic -at- web137401 -dot- mail -dot- in -dot- yahoo -dot- com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I tried typing the text and Word 2007 did not raise a flag for this one. My
> language is set to US English.
> ?
> regards,
> Reshma
>
> --- On Thu, 8/9/11, William Sherman <bsherman77 -at- embarqmail -dot- com> wrote:
>
>
> From: William Sherman <bsherman77 -at- embarqmail -dot- com>
> Subject: Re: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
> To: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Date: Thursday, 8 September, 2011, 4:57 AM
>
>
> You should see some of what comes through in these documents.? I don't like
> "the user" when it is really "the customer". Didn't "user" go out after Tron
> 29 years ago? Maybe this is why customer service is such a
> [sarcasm]wonderful[/sarcasm] experience, is that many in these service desks
> read these types of guides and think of them as "users" rather than
> "customers" who deserve respect for buying the product in the first place.
>
> However, these documents have been through an approval process, and cannot
> be changed except for obvious and terrible spelling errors.? Sad, but true.
>
> Remember, anyone can write. We learned how in third grade.
>
> All I get to do is publish them online. I'm not here for my writing
> talents; I'm only here for my online publishing talents.? There are some
> changes we make, in hopes we don't get caught, but few. If we get caught,
> the higher ups want to know why we were changing approved material.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Barber" <David -dot- Barber -at- ptgrey -dot- com
> >
> To: "William Sherman" <bsherman77 -at- embarqmail -dot- com>; <
> techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 4:43 PM
> Subject: RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
>
>
> When I first read the sentence, I thought the issue would be that 'the
> user' != 'them'.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: techwr-l-bounces+david -dot- barber=ptgrey -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com [mailto:
> techwr-l-bounces+david -dot- barber=ptgrey -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com] On Behalf Of
> William Sherman
> Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 12:33 PM
> To: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Subject: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
>
> I have a line in a manual:
>
> If the user calls in for ticket status, please advise them to contact ...
>
>
> I click on advise to see why Microsoft is flagging it.
>
> They say it should be advice.? So according to Microsoft, I am confused and
> I really need to put a noun in where I have a verb.
>
> Hmmmm.
>
> Oh well, anyone can write. Especially with Microsoft correcting spelling
> and grammar for you.
>
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 07:47:31 -0500
> From: INKtopia Admin <admin -at- inktopia -dot- net>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 10:07:26 -0400
> From: "McLauchlan, Kevin" <Kevin -dot- McLauchlan -at- safenet-inc -dot- com>
> To: William Sherman <bsherman77 -at- embarqmail -dot- com>,
> "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
> Message-ID:
>
> <D1E2C829C5011E4A84DAF8A184DD7CDA0194D4CC10 -at- BEL1EXCH02 -dot- amer -dot- sfnt -dot- local>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: William Sherman
> >
> > You should see some of what comes through in these documents. I don't
> > like
> > "the user" when it is really "the customer". Didn't "user" go out after
> > Tron
> > 29 years ago? Maybe this is why customer service is such a
> > [sarcasm]wonderful[/sarcasm] experience, is that many in these service
> > desks
> > read these types of guides and think of them as "users" rather than
> > "customers" who deserve respect for buying the product in the first
> > place.
> >
>
> Dunno about you, but we sell to giant corporations, governments, etc.
> Those are our customers.
>
> The actual users of our products are people (way down the
> corporate/organizational food chain) employed by them, and are reliably not
> the people who made the purchasing decisions or the people who cut the
> checks (cheques).
>
> -k
>
>
> The information contained in this electronic mail transmission
> may be privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected
> from disclosure. If you have received this communication in
> error, please notify us immediately by replying to this
> message and deleting it from your computer without copying
> or disclosing it.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 14:24:51 +0000 (UTC)
> From: mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net
> To: Kevin McLauchlan <Kevin -dot- McLauchlan -at- safenet-inc -dot- com>
> Cc: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Subject: Re: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
> Message-ID:
> <
> 1140743044 -dot- 356992 -dot- 1315491891183 -dot- JavaMail -dot- root -at- sz0168a -dot- emeryville -dot- ca -dot- mail -dot- comcast -dot- net
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
>
> I find the words "user," "customer," and "consumer" (especially consumer)
> alarming: why do we all, including media, seem to increasingly regard P E O
> P L E as entites in relationship with products?
>
>
>
> (I know -- outside the scope of this discussion....)
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Kevin McLauchlan" <Kevin -dot- McLauchlan -at- safenet-inc -dot- com>
> To: "William Sherman" <bsherman77 -at- embarqmail -dot- com>,
> techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 7:07:26 AM
> Subject: RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: William Sherman
> >
> > You should see some of what comes through in these documents. ?I don't
> > like
> > "the user" when it is really "the customer". Didn't "user" go out after
> > Tron
> > 29 years ago? Maybe this is why customer service is such a
> > [sarcasm]wonderful[/sarcasm] experience, is that many in these service
> > desks
> > read these types of guides and think of them as "users" rather than
> > "customers" who deserve respect for buying the product in the first
> > place.
> >
>
> Dunno about you, but we sell to giant corporations, governments, etc.
> Those are our customers.
>
> The actual users of our products are people (way down the
> corporate/organizational food chain) employed by them, and are reliably not
> the people who made the purchasing decisions or the people who cut the
> checks (cheques).
>
> ?-k
>
>
> The information contained in this electronic mail transmission
> may be privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected
> from disclosure. If you have received this communication in
> error, please notify us immediately by replying to this
> message and deleting it from your computer without copying
> or disclosing it.
>
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
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> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 11:13:33 -0400
> From: "McLauchlan, Kevin" <Kevin -dot- McLauchlan -at- safenet-inc -dot- com>
> To: "mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net" <mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net>
> Cc: "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
> Message-ID:
>
> <D1E2C829C5011E4A84DAF8A184DD7CDA0194D4CDD5 -at- BEL1EXCH02 -dot- amer -dot- sfnt -dot- local>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Because nobody will step forward with a suitable alternative?
>
> In my docs, I have to differentiate among:
>
> - user -- actually ?User?
> - administrator
> - client
> - Security Officer
> - Crypto Officer
> - Crypto User
> etc?.
>
>
> What do YOU use, instead of the terms that you find alarming?
> If you don?t have a consistent set of terms to do the same job, then why
> not (which would probably answer the same question on behalf of most of the
> rest of us)?
>
>
> From: mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net [mailto:mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net]
> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 10:25 AM
> To: McLauchlan, Kevin
> Cc: William Sherman; techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Subject: Re: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
>
>
> I find the words "user," "customer," and "consumer" (especially consumer)
> alarming: why do we all, including media, seem to increasingly regard P E O
> P L E as entites in relationship with products?
>
>
>
> (I know -- outside the scope of this discussion....)
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: "Kevin McLauchlan" <Kevin -dot- McLauchlan -at- safenet-inc -dot- com>
> To: "William Sherman" <bsherman77 -at- embarqmail -dot- com>,
> techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 7:07:26 AM
> Subject: RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: William Sherman
> >
> > You should see some of what comes through in these documents. I don't
> > like
> > "the user" when it is really "the customer". Didn't "user" go out after
> > Tron
> > 29 years ago? Maybe this is why customer service is such a
> > [sarcasm]wonderful[/sarcasm] experience, is that many in these service
> > desks
> > read these types of guides and think of them as "users" rather than
> > "customers" who deserve respect for buying the product in the first
> > place.
> >
>
> Dunno about you, but we sell to giant corporations, governments, etc.
> Those are our customers.
>
> The actual users of our products are people (way down the
> corporate/organizational food chain) employed by them, and are reliably not
> the people who made the purchasing decisions or the people who cut the
> checks (cheques).
>
> -k
>
>
>
>
> The information contained in this electronic mail transmission
> may be privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected
> from disclosure. If you have received this communication in
> error, please notify us immediately by replying to this
> message and deleting it from your computer without copying
> or disclosing it.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 08:36:13 -0700
> From: "Combs, Richard" <richard -dot- combs -at- Polycom -dot- com>
> To: "mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net" <mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net>
> Cc: "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
> Message-ID:
> <C5D089C86687BC4DBBABE1CC5B3E45FCD0095895 -at- CRPMBOXPRD01 -dot- polycom -dot- com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net wrote:
>
> > I find the words "user," "customer," and "consumer" (especially
> > consumer) alarming: why do we all, including media, seem to
> > increasingly regard P E O P L E as entites in relationship with
> > products?
>
> Alarming? Seriously? I believe there are prescription medications that can
> help you with that. :-)
>
> After you calm down, you may want to study those terms that disturb you a
> bit more carefully. You seem to be using "entites" (entities) as a synonym
> for "things." But the words "user," "customer," and "consumer" aren't
> references to _entities_ in that sense, they're references to _actors_.
>
> Richard G. Combs
> Senior Technical Writer
> Polycom, Inc.
> richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
> 303-223-5111
> ------
> rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
> 303-903-6372
> ------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 15:55:53 +0000 (UTC)
> From: mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net
> To: Richard Combs <richard -dot- combs -at- Polycom -dot- com>
> Cc: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Subject: Re: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
> Message-ID:
> <
> 1311468962 -dot- 362151 -dot- 1315497353289 -dot- JavaMail -dot- root -at- sz0168a -dot- emeryville -dot- ca -dot- mail -dot- comcast -dot- net
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
>
> You miss my drift.
>
>
>
> I am a person.
>
>
>
> I am not a "user," a "customer," or a "consumer."
>
>
>
> All those terms present me in relation to products or services, and regard
> me as a cog in a corporate machine.
>
>
>
> This is, I think, a major problem in our world and one of the reasons why
> profits are more highly regarded than people.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Richard Combs" <richard -dot- combs -at- Polycom -dot- com>
> To: mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net
> Cc: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 8:36:13 AM
> Subject: RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
>
> mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net wrote:
> ?
> > I find the words "user," "customer," and "consumer" (especially
> > consumer) alarming: why do we all, including media, seem to
> > increasingly regard P E O P L E as entites in relationship with
> > products?
>
> Alarming? Seriously? I believe there are prescription medications that can
> help you with that. :-)
>
> After you calm down, you may want to study those terms that disturb you a
> bit more carefully. You seem to be using "entites" (entities) as a synonym
> for "things." But the words "user," "customer," and "consumer" aren't
> references to _entities_ in that sense, they're references to _actors_.
>
> Richard G. Combs
> Senior Technical Writer
> Polycom, Inc.
> richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
> 303-223-5111
> ------
> rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
> 303-903-6372
> ------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 09:08:26 -0700
> From: "Combs, Richard" <richard -dot- combs -at- Polycom -dot- com>
> To: "mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net" <mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net>
> Cc: "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
> Message-ID:
> <C5D089C86687BC4DBBABE1CC5B3E45FCD00958BE -at- CRPMBOXPRD01 -dot- polycom -dot- com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net wrote:
>
> > You miss my drift.
>
> No, I don't. I'm all too familiar with your drift; I just reject it.
>
> > I am a person.
>
> Is that all? And only that? You're never a writer, reader, a driver, a
> buyer, ... ? In your documents, when you have to refer to someone other than
> the reader, do you always and exclusively refer to them as "a person" with
> no other identifying information?
>
> > I am not a "user," a "customer," or a "consumer."
>
> You are when you use, buy, or consume something.
>
> > All those terms present me in relation to products or services, and
> > regard me as a cog in a corporate machine.
>
> They present you in relation to the things you use, buy, and consume. Or
> are you living in an ethereal world where you don't actually interact with
> _things_?
>
> They present you as an _actor_, suggesting volition and control, and thus
> as the _opposite_ of a cog.
>
> > This is, I think, a major problem in our world and one of the reasons
> > why profits are more highly regarded than people.
>
> Oh, puh-leez.
>
>
> Richard G. Combs
> Senior Technical Writer
> Polycom, Inc.
> richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
> 303-223-5111
> ------
> rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
> 303-903-6372
> ------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 09:28:46 -0700
> From: Chris Morton <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com>
> To: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Subject: Re: real books
> Message-ID:
> <CAO7RWYTLGtQ3nL-0qzOdjsPeaxBFTuYiY0ViM6hXFNW1DMwL_w -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Have we beaten this topic to death yet? > Chris
>
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 9:45 PM, Deborah Hemstreet <
> dvora -at- tech-challenged -dot- com
> > wrote:
>
> > Actually, TeX is quite powerful and to one used to using it, Word can't
> > compare.
> >
> > Word CAN do the job, but it requires knowledge of all the commands and
> > layout issues.
> >
> > TeX on the other hand is pure commands. No WSIYWIG. Many scientists
> prefer
> > it. TeX is VERY popular amongst academia here in Israel.
> >
> > The problem is you have to learn it....
> >
> > Having said all that, where I'm working, we are producing quality journal
> > articles for our journal at Rambam hosptial. (Look up RMMJ.org.il (I
> > think, just started there).
> >
> > The articles are not as I would have produced as I only just started
> there.
> > But they've improved. Take a look and see if you like the quality. All of
> > that was done in Word 2007. I am now working in Word 2010.
> >
> > Give me a call if you need help.
> >
> > Debbie
> > **
> >
> > *
> > <http://deborah.hemstreet.**googlepages.com/home<
> http://deborah.hemstreet.googlepages.com/home>
> > >*
> >
> >
> >
> > On 09/06/2011 3:03 PM, Erika Yanovich wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> Our chief scientist (the author of several textbooks) is writing a new
> >> series (something between an idiot's guide and a scientific textbook)
> that
> >> we should edit and format. The neighboring marcom dept will design the
> cover
> >> and take care of production. Our tool is MS Word and that's what we
> intended
> >> to use for this purpose, but the author claims that Word can't produce
> >> 'real' books (by this he means the look and feel of modern textbooks).
> >>
> >> Is this true? Are there any [hidden] advanced features of Word for this
> >> purpose, not used by tech writers? What tools would you use?
> >> The author prefers TeX for which he has (and can develop) styles guides.
> >> Needless to say, he is a power user of TeX and he is used to produce
> >> camera-ready copies in postscript.
> >>
> >> I have mixed feelings about him doing the formatting (apparently he
> >> doesn't mind, but isn't his time too expensive for this?), based on our
> >> definitions (which is what he apparently expects). Also, how would we
> get it
> >> for review? What formats are available to export from TeX?
> >>
> >> Any thoughts appreciated.
> >>
> >> Erika
> >>
> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^**^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>
> >> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> >> Doc-To-Help.
> >> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> >> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> >> http://www.doctohelp.com
> >>
> >> ---
> >> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as dvora -at- tech-challenged -dot- com -dot-
> >>
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> >> techwr-l-unsubscribe -at- lists -dot- **techwr-l -dot- com<
> techwr-l-unsubscribe -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> >> or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/**mailman/options/techwr-l/**
> >> dvora%40tech-challenged.com<
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/dvora%40tech-challenged.com
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- **com<
> techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> >>
> >> Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot- Visit
> >> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
> >>
> >> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> >> http://lists.techwr-l.com/**mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat<
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> > Doc-To-Help.
> > Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> > Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> > http://www.doctohelp.com
> >
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com -dot-
> >
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > techwr-l-unsubscribe -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> > or visit
> >
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/salt.morton%40gmail.com
> >
> >
> > To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> >
> > Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot- Visit
> > http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
> >
> > Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> > http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 16:54:55 +0000
> From: Lynne Wright <Lynne -dot- Wright -at- tiburoninc -dot- com>
> To: "Combs, Richard" <richard -dot- combs -at- Polycom -dot- com>,
> "mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net" <mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net>
> Cc: "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
> Message-ID:
> <C140093FF7C2D942A3FB4615B2F8729F4F5F48E0 -at- TIBEX2K10A -dot- tiburoninc -dot- net
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> We are ALL cogs in some kind of machine or other. No matter what you want
> to call yourself, there is no escape.
>
> Might as well go shopping.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: techwr-l-bounces+lynne -dot- wright=tiburoninc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com[mailto:
> techwr-l-bounces+lynne -dot- wright=tiburoninc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com] On Behalf
> Of Combs, Richard
> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 12:08 PM
> To: mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net
> Cc: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Subject: RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
>
> mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net wrote:
>
> > You miss my drift.
>
> No, I don't. I'm all too familiar with your drift; I just reject it.
>
> > I am a person.
>
> Is that all? And only that? You're never a writer, reader, a driver, a
> buyer, ... ? In your documents, when you have to refer to someone other than
> the reader, do you always and exclusively refer to them as "a person" with
> no other identifying information?
>
> > I am not a "user," a "customer," or a "consumer."
>
> You are when you use, buy, or consume something.
>
> > All those terms present me in relation to products or services, and
> > regard me as a cog in a corporate machine.
>
> They present you in relation to the things you use, buy, and consume. Or
> are you living in an ethereal world where you don't actually interact with
> _things_?
>
> They present you as an _actor_, suggesting volition and control, and thus
> as the _opposite_ of a cog.
>
> > This is, I think, a major problem in our world and one of the reasons
> > why profits are more highly regarded than people.
>
> Oh, puh-leez.
>
>
> Richard G. Combs
> Senior Technical Writer
> Polycom, Inc.
> richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
> 303-223-5111
> ------
> rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
> 303-903-6372
> ------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as Lynne -dot- Wright -at- tiburoninc -dot- com -dot-
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-unsubscribe -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/lynne.wright%40tiburoninc.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
>
> Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot- Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 09:56:41 -0700
> From: kafkascampi <kafkascampi -at- gmail -dot- com>
> To: "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: Re: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
> Message-ID:
> <CACuiNr3nGCxr+rTmbeH0nGdVmXeFvEcJvEi-JB_m=1dNCjbmJQ -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I write help topics and manuals for SaaS software. If you use the software,
> you are a user. I'd love to call everyone who reads it by their first name,
> though.
>
> DAVE, click Release to Production. DAVE, why aren't you clicking Release to
> Production? Is it me, DAVE? Is it because I called you a user that one
> time?
>
> But really, I write my topics in 2nd person, so I only call people users
> when describing functionality, etc.
>
> :)
>
> Chris (USER 27b/6)
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Combs, Richard <richard -dot- combs -at- polycom -dot- com
> >wrote:
>
> > mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net wrote:
> >
> > > You miss my drift.
> >
> > No, I don't. I'm all too familiar with your drift; I just reject it.
> >
> > > I am a person.
> >
> > Is that all? And only that? You're never a writer, reader, a driver, a
> > buyer, ... ? In your documents, when you have to refer to someone other
> than
> > the reader, do you always and exclusively refer to them as "a person"
> with
> > no other identifying information?
> >
> > > I am not a "user," a "customer," or a "consumer."
> >
> > You are when you use, buy, or consume something.
> >
> > > All those terms present me in relation to products or services, and
> > > regard me as a cog in a corporate machine.
> >
> > They present you in relation to the things you use, buy, and consume. Or
> > are you living in an ethereal world where you don't actually interact
> with
> > _things_?
> >
> > They present you as an _actor_, suggesting volition and control, and thus
> > as the _opposite_ of a cog.
> >
> > > This is, I think, a major problem in our world and one of the reasons
> > > why profits are more highly regarded than people.
> >
> > Oh, puh-leez.
> >
> >
> > Richard G. Combs
> > Senior Technical Writer
> > Polycom, Inc.
> > richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
> > 303-223-5111
> > ------
> > rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
> > 303-903-6372
> > ------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> > Doc-To-Help.
> > Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> > Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> > http://www.doctohelp.com
> >
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as kafkascampi -at- gmail -dot- com -dot-
> >
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > techwr-l-unsubscribe -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> > or visit
> >
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/kafkascampi%40gmail.com
> >
> >
> > To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> >
> > Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot- Visit
> > http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
> >
> > Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> > http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 12:13:38 -0400
> From: Tim -dot- Slager -at- aciworldwide -dot- com
> To: "Combs, Richard" <richard -dot- combs -at- Polycom -dot- com>
> Cc: techwr-l-bounces+tim -dot- slager=aciworldwide -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com,
> "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
> Message-ID:
> <
> OF60C0CC83 -dot- FCA1EBA8-ON85257905 -dot- 0058E082-85257905 -dot- 00592413 -at- tsainc -dot- com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> There is, however, that unnerving association: the only other people
> called users are consumers of illicit drugs.
>
> Tim Slager
> Tech Pubs
> T 616.494.1373
>
> ACI Worldwide, 8436 Homestead Drive, Ste. 100, Zeeland, MI 49464, USA
>
> www.aciworldwide.com
>
>
>
> From:
> "Combs, Richard" <richard -dot- combs -at- Polycom -dot- com>
> To:
> "mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net" <mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net>
> Cc:
> "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Date:
> 09/08/2011 12:08 PM
> Subject:
> RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
> Sent by:
> techwr-l-bounces+tim -dot- slager=aciworldwide -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
>
>
>
> mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net wrote:
>
> > You miss my drift.
>
> No, I don't. I'm all too familiar with your drift; I just reject it.
>
> > I am a person.
>
> Is that all? And only that? You're never a writer, reader, a driver, a
> buyer, ... ? In your documents, when you have to refer to someone other
> than the reader, do you always and exclusively refer to them as "a person"
> with no other identifying information?
>
> > I am not a "user," a "customer," or a "consumer."
>
> You are when you use, buy, or consume something.
>
> > All those terms present me in relation to products or services, and
> > regard me as a cog in a corporate machine.
>
> They present you in relation to the things you use, buy, and consume. Or
> are you living in an ethereal world where you don't actually interact with
> _things_?
>
> They present you as an _actor_, suggesting volition and control, and thus
> as the _opposite_ of a cog.
>
> > This is, I think, a major problem in our world and one of the reasons
> > why profits are more highly regarded than people.
>
> Oh, puh-leez.
>
>
> Richard G. Combs
> Senior Technical Writer
> Polycom, Inc.
> richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
> 303-223-5111
> ------
> rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
> 303-903-6372
> ------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as Tim -dot- Slager -at- aciworldwide -dot- com -dot-
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 14:06:52 -0400
> From: "McLauchlan, Kevin" <Kevin -dot- McLauchlan -at- safenet-inc -dot- com>
> To: "Tim -dot- Slager -at- aciworldwide -dot- com" <Tim -dot- Slager -at- aciworldwide -dot- com>,
> "Combs, Richard" <richard -dot- combs -at- Polycom -dot- com>
> Cc: "techwr-l-bounces+tim -dot- slager=aciworldwide -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com"
> <techwr-l-bounces+tim -dot- slager=aciworldwide -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>,
> "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
> Message-ID:
>
> <D1E2C829C5011E4A84DAF8A184DD7CDA0194D4D0C4 -at- BEL1EXCH02 -dot- amer -dot- sfnt -dot- local>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> About calling the people who use our products "users",
> Tim -dot- Slager -at- aciworldwide -dot- com said:
>
> >
> > There is, however, that unnerving association: the only other people
> > called users are consumers of illicit drugs.
>
>
> Fine.
> I'm still waiting for that satisfactory alternative that:
>
> a) does the job
>
> b) offends fewer people than are scandalized by the current model.
>
> Who is proposing one?
>
> If no-one is proposing a serious, functional alternative, then
> why are we still yakking about it... why did we start?
>
> -k
>
>
>
> The information contained in this electronic mail transmission
> may be privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected
> from disclosure. If you have received this communication in
> error, please notify us immediately by replying to this
> message and deleting it from your computer without copying
> or disclosing it.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 11:11:00 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Ruth Sessions <ruthsessions03051 -at- yahoo -dot- com>
> To: "mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net" <mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net>, Richard Combs
> <richard -dot- combs -at- Polycom -dot- com>
> Cc: "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: Re: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
> Message-ID:
> <1315505460 -dot- 21464 -dot- YahooMailNeo -at- web110110 -dot- mail -dot- gq1 -dot- yahoo -dot- com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> <Kevin wrote:
> Because nobody will step forward with a suitable alternative?
>
> In my docs, I have to differentiate among:
>
> - user? -- actually ?User?
> - administrator
> - client
> - Security Officer
> - Crypto Officer
> - Crypto User
> etc?.
>
>
> What do YOU use, instead of the terms that you find alarming?
> If you don?t have a consistent set of terms to do the same job, then why
> not (which would probably answer the same question on behalf of most of the
> rest of us)?
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
>
>
> Response:?
>
> Although I acknowledge mattgras's concern (below) from a cultural
> perspective, I'd like to respond to the issue Kevin has raised on what to
> call "users":
> If I am writing for/about several types of users or am telling
> integrators/managers about setting up a system for various types of users,
> my rule of thumb on the best replacement for "user" depends on who actually
> works with the product. For a medical product, I replace "user"
> with?physician, physician's assistant, nurse, medical assistant, or medical
> coding specialist.?For a manufacturing product, "user" becomes
> >>integrator, shop floor supervisor, mechanic, robot operator, or
> technician and for an accounting product, "user" becomes CPA, staff
> accountant, payroll specialist, accounts payable specialist, and so on...
> anyway, you've got the idea...
> For a complex product like Kevin's, distinguishing the many user types is
> definitely a real issue. As it might not be self-evident how "Crypto
> Officers" differ from "Crypto Users," I'd define each role and what
> distinguishes it. If it is early enough in the product development cycle and
> it's still possible to change the names of the roles, I'd try to avoid
> having roles with similar names, as that might lead to confusion.?
> I'd also stay away from vanilla "user," referring (only if absolutely
> necessary) to a person who is logged in to the OS as either a "Windows user"
> or "Windows administrator" for clarification.?
> I have had the misfortune of running into situations where products
> contained "users" and "user accounts," mirroring Windows terminology and
> leading to sentences requiring phrases such as "...a SlickProduct user
> logged in as a Windows user...." vs. "...a SlickProduct user logged in as a
> Windows administrator..." !!!
>
>
> I think most of us prefer situations where we can contribute to the product
> design/terminology and obliterate excess deployment of the generic term
> "user" before it's too late...?
>
> :-)
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Ruth Sessions
> 603/886-7355
> 603/809-3054
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net" <mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net>
> To: Richard Combs <richard -dot- combs -at- Polycom -dot- com>
> Cc: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 11:55 AM
> Subject: Re: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
>
>
>
> You miss my drift.
>
>
>
> I am a person.
>
>
>
> I am not a "user," a "customer," or a "consumer."
>
>
>
> All those terms present me in relation to products or services, and regard
> me as a cog in a corporate machine.
>
>
>
> This is, I think, a major problem in our world and one of the reasons why
> profits are more highly regarded than people.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Richard Combs" <richard -dot- combs -at- Polycom -dot- com>
> To: mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net
> Cc: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 8:36:13 AM
> Subject: RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
>
> mattgras -at- comcast -dot- net wrote:
> ?
> > I find the words "user," "customer," and "consumer" (especially
> > consumer) alarming: why do we all, including media, seem to
> > increasingly regard P E O P L E as entites in relationship with
> > products?
>
> Alarming? Seriously? I believe there are prescription medications that can
> help you with that. :-)
>
> After you calm down, you may want to study those terms that disturb you a
> bit more carefully. You seem to be using "entites" (entities) as a synonym
> for "things." But the words "user," "customer," and "consumer" aren't
> references to _entities_ in that sense, they're references to _actors_.
>
> Richard G. Combs
> Senior Technical Writer
> Polycom, Inc.
> richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
> 303-223-5111
> ------
> rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
> 303-903-6372
> ------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
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> ---
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>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 11:18:14 -0700
> From: Chris Morton <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com>
> To: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Subject: Re: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
> Message-ID:
> <CAO7RWYQiKDxuqKt3=JQhFRj9=TqA5nijoKLchnJdw8KMhPcyWA -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> I'm a user
> I'm a user
> And I'm not what I appear to be
>
> Of all the apps I have won or have lost
> there is one app I should never have crossed
> It was an app in a million, my friend
> I should have known it would win in the end
>
> I'm a user
> And I've lost instructions near to me
> I'm a user
> And I'm as confused as I?ll ever be
>
> Although I laugh and I act like a clown
> Beneath this mask I am wearing a frown
> My tears are falling like rain from the sky
> Is it for the app or myself that I cry
>
> I'm a user
> And I've lost instructions near to me
> I'm a user
> And I'm as confused as I?ll ever be
>
> What have I done to deserve such a fate
> I realize I have left it too late
> And so it's true, pride comes before a fall
> I'm telling you so that you won't lose all
>
> I'm a user
> And I've lost instructions near to me
> I'm a user
> And I'm as confused as I?ll ever be
>
> ?*With apologies to John Lennon*
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 18:22:32 +0000
> From: Lynne Wright <Lynne -dot- Wright -at- tiburoninc -dot- com>
> To: "salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com" <salt -dot- morton -at- gmail -dot- com>,
> "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: RE: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
> Message-ID:
> <C140093FF7C2D942A3FB4615B2F8729F4F5F4933 -at- TIBEX2K10A -dot- tiburoninc -dot- net
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Or, as Beck might put it:
>
> Soy un usuario
> I'm a user baby, so why don't you kill me?
> (get crazy with the cheese whiz)
> Soy un usuario
> I'm a user baby, so why don't you kill me?
> (drive-by body-pierce)
> (yo bring it on down)
>
> - Or not -
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: techwr-l-bounces+lynne -dot- wright=tiburoninc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com[mailto:
> techwr-l-bounces+lynne -dot- wright=tiburoninc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com] On Behalf
> Of Chris Morton
> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 2:18 PM
> To: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Subject: Re: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft Gives
>
> I'm a user
> I'm a user
> And I'm not what I appear to be
>
> Of all the apps I have won or have lost
> there is one app I should never have crossed It was an app in a million, my
> friend I should have known it would win in the end
>
> I'm a user
> And I've lost instructions near to me
> I'm a user
> And I'm as confused as I'll ever be
>
> Although I laugh and I act like a clown
> Beneath this mask I am wearing a frown
> My tears are falling like rain from the sky Is it for the app or myself
> that I cry
>
> I'm a user
> And I've lost instructions near to me
> I'm a user
> And I'm as confused as I'll ever be
>
> What have I done to deserve such a fate
> I realize I have left it too late
> And so it's true, pride comes before a fall I'm telling you so that you
> won't lose all
>
> I'm a user
> And I've lost instructions near to me
> I'm a user
> And I'm as confused as I'll ever be
>
> -*With apologies to John Lennon*
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as Lynne -dot- Wright -at- tiburoninc -dot- com -dot-
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
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> Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot- Visit
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> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 14:38:58 -0400
> From: Milan Davidovi? <milan -dot- lists -at- gmail -dot- com>
> To: William Sherman <bsherman77 -at- embarqmail -dot- com>
> Cc: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Subject: earlier discussions of "user" (was: Grammar - The Gotcha
> Microsoft Gives)
> Message-ID:
> <CADgLD4E9y++vnxNKQknxzMmnJSr2g8j_cEJnLQF2A+JxW9LCjQ -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 7:27 PM, William Sherman
> <bsherman77 -at- embarqmail -dot- com> wrote:
> > You should see some of what comes through in these documents. ?I don't
> like
> > "the user" when it is really "the customer". Didn't "user" go out after
> Tron
> > 29 years ago?
>
> Someone with an interest and more time may wish to trace this
> discussion from 1993 to see what came out of it:
> http://www.techwr-l.com/archives/9312/techwhirl-9312-00092.html
>
> There may be evidence of earlier discussions of a similar nature
> elsewhere, if someone (again) has the time and inclination to go
> looking.
>
> --
> Milan Davidovi?
> http://twitter.com/altmilan
> http://altmilan.blogspot.com
> http://ca.linkedin.com/in/milandavidovic
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 15:48:06 -0400
> From: Donna McManus <donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com>
> To: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Subject: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> Message-ID:
> <CA+ekUZRV+MabxYFZEwaevzY1CEBTsMP_JO1dZShDNOB3+-P4uw -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> All, I'm just gathering opinion. Feel free to opine away.
>
> I am seeing the use of the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options in
> procedures. This is even given as an example in Microsoft's Manual of Style
> (if you have the 3rd version, see p123):
>
> To open a menu:
> - Press Alt+the key for the underlined letter in the menu name
> -or-
> - Use the LEFT ARROW key or the RIGHT ARROW key to move to another menu
>
> I'm more of the mind to write the procedure as:
>
> Use one of two methods to open a menu:
> - Press Alt+the key for the underlined letter in the menu name
> - Use the LEFT ARROW key or the RIGHT ARROW key to move to another menu
>
> What is your opinion? I can't quite put my finger on it, but it bugs me to
> no end to have to be so explicit that we have to emphasize that two options
> are mutually exclusive. Is this more for translation purposes that
> Microsoft
> would recommend this?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 15:52:16 -0400
> From: "Dan Goldstein" <DGoldstein -at- riverainmedical -dot- com>
> To: <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: RE: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> Message-ID:
> <0ADA9A22B5BC2147B360A22FD2BAD25C023FA341 -at- RMGBEX01 -dot- rmg -dot- local>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii"
>
> First option seems clearer to me. It's what we use in our end-user
> manuals.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Donna McManus
> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 3:48 PM
> To: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Subject: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
>
> All, I'm just gathering opinion. Feel free to opine away.
>
> I am seeing the use of the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> in procedures. This is even given as an example in Microsoft's Manual of
> Style (if you have the 3rd version, see p123):
>
> To open a menu:
> - Press Alt+the key for the underlined letter in the menu name
> -or-
> - Use the LEFT ARROW key or the RIGHT ARROW key to move to another menu
>
> I'm more of the mind to write the procedure as:
>
> Use one of two methods to open a menu:
> - Press Alt+the key for the underlined letter in the menu name
> - Use the LEFT ARROW key or the RIGHT ARROW key to move to another menu
>
> What is your opinion? I can't quite put my finger on it, but it bugs me
> to no end to have to be so explicit that we have to emphasize that two
> options are mutually exclusive. Is this more for translation purposes
> that Microsoft would recommend this?
>
>
>
>
>
> This message contains confidential information intended only for the use of
> the addressee(s). If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible
> for delivering it to the addressee, you are hereby notified that reading,
> disseminating, distributing, copying, electronic storing or the taking of
> any action in reliance on the contents of this message is strictly
> prohibited. If you have received this message by mistake, please notify us,
> by replying to the sender, and delete the original message immediately
> thereafter. Thank you.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 13:19:51 -0700
> From: Richard L Hamilton <dick -at- rlhamilton -dot- net>
> To: Techwr-l <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> Message-ID: <875DAED0-E30F-4A49-99AF-87B10288EA7B -at- rlhamilton -dot- net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I agree with Dan.
>
> There are situations where the use of "or" is not mutually exclusive or is
> ambiguous (gee, this sentence may be one:-), but your example seems
> unambiguously exclusive to me.
>
> Richard Hamilton
> XML Press
> http://xmlpress.net
> On Sep 8, 2011, at 12:52 PM, Dan Goldstein wrote:
>
> > First option seems clearer to me. It's what we use in our end-user
> > manuals.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Donna McManus
> > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 3:48 PM
> > To: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> > Subject: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> >
> > All, I'm just gathering opinion. Feel free to opine away.
> >
> > I am seeing the use of the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> > in procedures. This is even given as an example in Microsoft's Manual of
> > Style (if you have the 3rd version, see p123):
> >
> > To open a menu:
> > - Press Alt+the key for the underlined letter in the menu name
> > -or-
> > - Use the LEFT ARROW key or the RIGHT ARROW key to move to another menu
> >
> > I'm more of the mind to write the procedure as:
> >
> > Use one of two methods to open a menu:
> > - Press Alt+the key for the underlined letter in the menu name
> > - Use the LEFT ARROW key or the RIGHT ARROW key to move to another menu
> >
> > What is your opinion? I can't quite put my finger on it, but it bugs me
> > to no end to have to be so explicit that we have to emphasize that two
> > options are mutually exclusive. Is this more for translation purposes
> > that Microsoft would recommend this?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This message contains confidential information intended only for the use
> of the addressee(s). If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible
> for delivering it to the addressee, you are hereby notified that reading,
> disseminating, distributing, copying, electronic storing or the taking of
> any action in reliance on the contents of this message is strictly
> prohibited. If you have received this message by mistake, please notify us,
> by replying to the sender, and delete the original message immediately
> thereafter. Thank you.
> >
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> > Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> > Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> > http://www.doctohelp.com
> >
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as dick -at- rlhamilton -dot- net -dot-
> >
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > techwr-l-unsubscribe -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> > or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/dick%40rlhamilton.net
> >
> >
> > To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> >
> > Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot- Visit
> > http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
> >
> > Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> > http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2011 06:22:39 +1000
> From: Janice Gelb <janice -dot- gelb -at- oracle -dot- com>
> To: techwr-l -at- techwr-l -dot- com
> Subject: Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> Message-ID: <4E69240F -dot- 7060707 -at- oracle -dot- com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On Sep 8, 2011 3:48PM, Donna McManus wrote:
> > All, I'm just gathering opinion. Feel free to opine away.
> >
> > I am seeing the use of the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> > in procedures. This is even given as an example in Microsoft's Manual of
> > Style (if you have the 3rd version, see p123):
> >
> > To open a menu:
> > - Press Alt+the key for the underlined letter in the menu name
> > -or-
> > - Use the LEFT ARROW key or the RIGHT ARROW key to move to another menu
> >
> > I'm more of the mind to write the procedure as:
> >
> > Use one of two methods to open a menu:
> > - Press Alt+the key for the underlined letter in the menu name
> > - Use the LEFT ARROW key or the RIGHT ARROW key to move to another menu
> >
>
> I'm with you - I hate the "or" construction. I much
> prefer to indicate up front that the first option is
> one of more than one.
>
> -- Janice
>
> **************************************************************
> Janice Gelb | The only connection Oracle has with
> janice -dot- gelb -at- oracle -dot- com | this message is the return address
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 16:29:38 -0400
> From: "Mark Baker" <mbaker -at- analecta -dot- com>
> To: "'Donna McManus'" <donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com>,
> <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: RE: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> Message-ID: <4E815EE6268B4C53BD0A281FB51822E9 -at- MarkPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> My opinion is that you should never present more than one equivalent method
> of accomplishing something in a procedure. If someone is reading a
> step-by-step procedure it is because they want to get a specific task done.
> One method will suffice for this purpose; offering an alternative is just a
> distraction.
>
> A person who is sufficiently unfamiliar with the product to require
> instruction of this kind does not need the extra chore of choosing between
> two alternative, especially when there is no guidance provided on why to
> choose one option over the other. Make their life simpler: choose for them.
> If a person uses the application often, they will learn that there are
> alternate ways of doing things. If they don't use it often, they don't care
> that there are alternate ways of doing things.
>
> A good topic should do one thing. Putting alternative methods into a
> procedure is an attempt to teach the interface to a user who is just trying
> to get a job done. For users who want to learn the interface, write a topic
> on how the interface works.
>
> But if you absolutely must state the alternatives, the first form is both
> clearer and more conventional.
>
> Mark
>
> ---
> Mark Baker
>
> * Every Page is Page One *
> http://everypageispageone.com
> http://twitter.com/mbakeranalecta
> http://about.me/mark.baker
>
> > To open a menu:
> > - Press Alt+the key for the underlined letter in the menu name
> > -or-
> > - Use the LEFT ARROW key or the RIGHT ARROW key to move to
> > another menu
> >
> > I'm more of the mind to write the procedure as:
> >
> > Use one of two methods to open a menu:
> > - Press Alt+the key for the underlined letter in the menu name
> > - Use the LEFT ARROW key or the RIGHT ARROW key to move to
> > another menu
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 20:42:37 +0000
> From: "Porrello, Leonard" <lporrello -at- illumina -dot- com>
> To: 'Richard L Hamilton' <dick -at- rlhamilton -dot- net>, Techwr-l
> <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: RE: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> Message-ID:
> <
> 37C80DFB411A7F4183C34A5CEEBCF9A31084671B -at- ussd-prd-exmb01 -dot- illumina -dot- com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I agree with Richard and Dan and would add that, along with clarity, the
> first form scans more quickly. That is, it takes less time for me to figure
> out what the step is about. Of course, you can fix this issue by rewording
> the introductory sentence. Instead of " Use one of two methods to open a
> menu," you can write, "Open a menu using one of two methods".
>
> Leonard
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: techwr-l-bounces+lporrello=illumina -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com [mailto:
> techwr-l-bounces+lporrello=illumina -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com] On Behalf Of
> Richard L Hamilton
> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 1:20 PM
> To: Techwr-l
> Subject: Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
>
> I agree with Dan.
>
> There are situations where the use of "or" is not mutually exclusive or is
> ambiguous (gee, this sentence may be one:-), but your example seems
> unambiguously exclusive to me.
>
> Richard Hamilton
> XML Press
> http://xmlpress.net
> On Sep 8, 2011, at 12:52 PM, Dan Goldstein wrote:
>
> > First option seems clearer to me. It's what we use in our end-user
> > manuals.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Donna McManus
> > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2011 3:48 PM
> > To: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> > Subject: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> >
> > All, I'm just gathering opinion. Feel free to opine away.
> >
> > I am seeing the use of the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> > in procedures. This is even given as an example in Microsoft's Manual of
> > Style (if you have the 3rd version, see p123):
> >
> > To open a menu:
> > - Press Alt+the key for the underlined letter in the menu name
> > -or-
> > - Use the LEFT ARROW key or the RIGHT ARROW key to move to another menu
> >
> > I'm more of the mind to write the procedure as:
> >
> > Use one of two methods to open a menu:
> > - Press Alt+the key for the underlined letter in the menu name
> > - Use the LEFT ARROW key or the RIGHT ARROW key to move to another menu
> >
> > What is your opinion? I can't quite put my finger on it, but it bugs me
> > to no end to have to be so explicit that we have to emphasize that two
> > options are mutually exclusive. Is this more for translation purposes
> > that Microsoft would recommend this?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This message contains confidential information intended only for the use
> of the addressee(s). If you are not the addressee, or the person responsible
> for delivering it to the addressee, you are hereby notified that reading,
> disseminating, distributing, copying, electronic storing or the taking of
> any action in reliance on the contents of this message is strictly
> prohibited. If you have received this message by mistake, please notify us,
> by replying to the sender, and delete the original message immediately
> thereafter. Thank you.
> >
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> > Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> > Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> > http://www.doctohelp.com
> >
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as dick -at- rlhamilton -dot- net -dot-
> >
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > techwr-l-unsubscribe -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> > or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/dick%40rlhamilton.net
> >
> >
> > To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> >
> > Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot- Visit
> > http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
> >
> > Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> > http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
> >
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as lporrello -at- illumina -dot- com -dot-
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
>
> Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot- Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 13:50:38 -0700
> From: "Combs, Richard" <richard -dot- combs -at- Polycom -dot- com>
> To: Mark Baker <mbaker -at- analecta -dot- com>, 'Donna McManus'
> <donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com>, "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com"
> <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: RE: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> Message-ID:
> <C5D089C86687BC4DBBABE1CC5B3E45FCD0095ACD -at- CRPMBOXPRD01 -dot- polycom -dot- com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Mark Baker wrote:
>
> > My opinion is that you should never present more than one equivalent
> > method
> > of accomplishing something in a procedure. If someone is reading a
> > step-by-step procedure it is because they want to get a specific task
> > done.
> > One method will suffice for this purpose; offering an alternative is
> > just a
> > distraction.
> >
> > A person who is sufficiently unfamiliar with the product to require
> > instruction of this kind does not need the extra chore of choosing
> > between
> > two alternative, especially when there is no guidance provided on why
> > to
> > choose one option over the other. Make their life simpler: choose for
> > them.
> > If a person uses the application often, they will learn that there are
> > alternate ways of doing things. If they don't use it often, they don't
> > care
> > that there are alternate ways of doing things.
> >
> > A good topic should do one thing. Putting alternative methods into a
> > procedure is an attempt to teach the interface to a user who is just
> > trying
> > to get a job done. For users who want to learn the interface, write a
> > topic
> > on how the interface works.
> >
> > But if you absolutely must state the alternatives, the first form is
> > both
> > clearer and more conventional.
>
> What he said. In large neon letters. With full orchestral accompaniment.
>
>
> Richard G. Combs
> Senior Technical Writer
> Polycom, Inc.
> richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
> 303-223-5111
> ------
> rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
> 303-903-6372
> ------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 14:03:21 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Ruth Sessions <ruthsessions03051 -at- yahoo -dot- com>
> To: Milan Davidovi? <milan -dot- lists -at- gmail -dot- com>, William Sherman
> <bsherman77 -at- embarqmail -dot- com>
> Cc: "techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com" <techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: Re: earlier discussions of "user" (was: Grammar - The Gotcha
> Microsoft Gives)
> Message-ID:
> <1315515801 -dot- 21414 -dot- YahooMailNeo -at- web110115 -dot- mail -dot- gq1 -dot- yahoo -dot- com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Milan:
>
> Thanks for the referral to the old discussions on the word "you" replacing
> the word "user." I have also addressed the user with "you" for lo these 20
> years, but?I do think my post today is NOT redundant with the old
> discussions from 1993 that I just perused...?
>
> My comment earlier this afternoon on Kevin's concern was strictly aimed at
> situations like the one Kevin described, where a product has multiple types
> of users. These users usually need to know which class they belong to. For
> instance, a product might be an order management system and have several
> types of users: Order entry personnel who enter the orders, order
> fulfillment personnel who ship the orders, and customer service personnel
> who can access the system to see the status of any order a customer has a
> question about. In addition, that system might have various levels of
> business management users, who analyze the data.
>
> Some portion of the doc has to explain the roles of these many "users" and
> cannot just speak to them as "you" without making clear the role of the
> "you" who should follow a particular set of instructions.
>
> Also, I confess to having written a lot of installation, administrator, and
> programmer guides, where I address the administrator or developer as "you,"
> but need to able to talk about all the other users of the product (or the
> end users of the development process) in the third person.?Overviews of
> multi-user systems also need to discuss how the product serves multiple
> types of users.??
>
> I'll reiterate here that I would refer to these users by their role names
> (for example, "when the order fulfillment specialist receives an
> alert,..."), rather than just calling them "users."
> ?
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Ruth Sessions
> 603/886-7355
> 603/809-3054
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Milan Davidovi? <milan -dot- lists -at- gmail -dot- com>
> To: William Sherman <bsherman77 -at- embarqmail -dot- com>
> Cc: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 2:38 PM
> Subject: earlier discussions of "user" (was: Grammar - The Gotcha Microsoft
> Gives)
>
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 7:27 PM, William Sherman
> <bsherman77 -at- embarqmail -dot- com> wrote:
> > You should see some of what comes through in these documents. ?I don't
> like
> > "the user" when it is really "the customer". Didn't "user" go out after
> Tron
> > 29 years ago?
>
> Someone with an interest and more time may wish to trace this
> discussion from 1993 to see what came out of it:
> http://www.techwr-l.com/archives/9312/techwhirl-9312-00092.html
>
> There may be evidence of earlier discussions of a similar nature
> elsewhere, if someone (again) has the time and inclination to go
> looking.
>
> --
> Milan Davidovi?
> http://twitter.com/altmilan
> http://altmilan.blogspot.com
> http://ca.linkedin.com/in/milandavidovic
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as ruthsessions03051 -at- yahoo -dot- com -dot-
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-unsubscribe -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
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>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
>
> Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot- Visit
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>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 18:25:47 -0400
> From: Donna McManus <donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com>
> To: Mark Baker <mbaker -at- analecta -dot- com>
> Cc: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Subject: Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> Message-ID:
> <CA+ekUZTZKNYY7WJ2WCi6m6PMbcZAb4wB5M7N7SMUbbX2SKeT_Q -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Mark, three cheers for this response! As my kids would say, I *heart* it.
>
> If we're serious in our support of readers/users/consumers, simplicity is
> always best. I've always hated the idea of having to insert alternative
> procedures. It just doesn't make sense, particularly for the audience to
> whom I'm writing: guys on a factory line, using a piece of equipment or
> software, to put identification on parts from the production line. I'm
> writing "how-to" procedures.
>
> This is a lesson I'm taking away from the situation that prompted this
> question--Occam's Razor. If there are one or more equally valid methods of
> doing something, choose the least complicated.
>
> The zen of TW :)
>
> Donna
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Mark Baker <mbaker -at- analecta -dot- com> wrote:
>
> > My opinion is that you should never present more than one equivalent
> method
> > of accomplishing something in a procedure. If someone is reading a
> > step-by-step procedure it is because they want to get a specific task
> done.
> > One method will suffice for this purpose; offering an alternative is just
> a
> > distraction.
> >
> > A person who is sufficiently unfamiliar with the product to require
> > instruction of this kind does not need the extra chore of choosing
> between
> > two alternative, especially when there is no guidance provided on why to
> > choose one option over the other. Make their life simpler: choose for
> them.
> > If a person uses the application often, they will learn that there are
> > alternate ways of doing things. If they don't use it often, they don't
> care
> > that there are alternate ways of doing things.
> >
> > A good topic should do one thing. Putting alternative methods into a
> > procedure is an attempt to teach the interface to a user who is just
> trying
> > to get a job done. For users who want to learn the interface, write a
> topic
> > on how the interface works.
> >
> > But if you absolutely must state the alternatives, the first form is both
> > clearer and more conventional.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > ---
> > Mark Baker
> >
> > * Every Page is Page One *
> > http://everypageispageone.com
> > http://twitter.com/mbakeranalecta
> > http://about.me/mark.baker
> >
> > > To open a menu:
> > > - Press Alt+the key for the underlined letter in the menu name
> > > -or-
> > > - Use the LEFT ARROW key or the RIGHT ARROW key to move to
> > > another menu
> > >
> > > I'm more of the mind to write the procedure as:
> > >
> > > Use one of two methods to open a menu:
> > > - Press Alt+the key for the underlined letter in the menu name
> > > - Use the LEFT ARROW key or the RIGHT ARROW key to move to
> > > another menu
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 16:02:19 -0700
> From: Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>
> To: TECHWR-L <techwr-l -at- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> Message-ID:
> <CAN3Yy4BN0Rbe47+6nhSRJEC7vHix2U4=6an61yKfx0X6BUF5XQ -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Good rule, but the "or" example in the original post isn't two ways of
> doing the same thing, it's a branch where you can do one of two
> different things.
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Donna McManus <donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com>
> wrote:
> > ... If there are one or more equally valid methods of
> > doing something, choose the least complicated.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 28
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 19:03:16 -0400
> From: Donna McManus <donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com>
> To: Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>
> Cc: TECHWR-L <techwr-l -at- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> Message-ID:
> <CA+ekUZSMPwTSbiQ9yXPLK1Rt6E3DwzwM7q-aKnXF2Chb0HceJw -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> But they are each equally valid ways of accomplishing the same goal.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 7:02 PM, Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com
> >wrote:
>
> > Good rule, but the "or" example in the original post isn't two ways of
> > doing the same thing, it's a branch where you can do one of two
> > different things.
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Donna McManus <donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com>
> > wrote:
> > > ... If there are one or more equally valid methods of
> > > doing something, choose the least complicated.
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> > Doc-To-Help.
> > Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> > Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> > http://www.doctohelp.com
> >
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com -dot-
> >
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > techwr-l-unsubscribe -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> > or visit
> >
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/donna.mcmanus%40gmail.com
> >
> >
> > To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> >
> > Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot- Visit
> > http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
> >
> > Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> > http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 29
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 16:11:11 -0700
> From: Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>
> To: TECHWR-L <techwr-l -at- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> Message-ID:
> <CAN3Yy4Brzjuj6K31ZrF50RUssTFtfvM5rC=VcfJ2fD7j6dE8Ow -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> In what context do Alt-<menu letter> and the right/left arrow keys do
> the same thing?
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Donna McManus <donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com>
> wrote:
> > But they are each equally valid ways of accomplishing the same goal.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 7:02 PM, Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Good rule, but the "or" example in the original post isn't two ways of
> >> doing the same thing, it's a branch where you can do one of two
> >> different things.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Donna McManus <donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > ... If there are one or more equally valid methods of
> >> > doing something, choose the least complicated.
> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>
> >> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> >> Doc-To-Help.
> >> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> >> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> >> http://www.doctohelp.com
> >>
> >> ---
> >> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com -dot-
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> >> techwr-l-unsubscribe -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> >> or visit
> >>
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/donna.mcmanus%40gmail.com
> >>
> >>
> >> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> >>
> >> Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot- Visit
> >> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
> >>
> >> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> >> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 30
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 19:44:11 -0400
> From: Donna McManus <donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com>
> To: Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>
> Cc: TECHWR-L <techwr-l -at- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> Message-ID:
> <CA+ekUZThLKz0WW50=1OuKYOXsZ_kDXfXkfGgNXXM=bRMN5H3PQ -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> That was an example I lifted from the Microsoft Manual of Style. I can't
> specifically answer the question you posed.
>
> The question I'd asked was more one of construct of the
> documentation/situation rather than a specific software question.
>
> I posted the location of the example I pulled from the manual in my
> original
> post. Unless I miscopied (which is possible, I was just quickly typing up a
> message), it was one provided by Microsoft. I didn't post an example
> specific to my situation.
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com
> >wrote:
>
> > In what context do Alt-<menu letter> and the right/left arrow keys do
> > the same thing?
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Donna McManus <donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com>
> > wrote:
> > > But they are each equally valid ways of accomplishing the same goal.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 7:02 PM, Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Good rule, but the "or" example in the original post isn't two ways of
> > >> doing the same thing, it's a branch where you can do one of two
> > >> different things.
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Donna McManus <
> donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > ... If there are one or more equally valid methods of
> > >> > doing something, choose the least complicated.
> > >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > >>
> > >> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> > >> Doc-To-Help.
> > >> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> > >> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> > >> http://www.doctohelp.com
> > >>
> > >> ---
> > >> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com -dot-
> > >>
> > >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > >> techwr-l-unsubscribe -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> > >> or visit
> > >>
> >
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/donna.mcmanus%40gmail.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> > >>
> > >> Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot- Visit
> > >> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
> > >>
> > >> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> > >> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> > Doc-To-Help.
> > Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> > Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> > http://www.doctohelp.com
> >
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com -dot-
> >
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > techwr-l-unsubscribe -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> > or visit
> >
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/donna.mcmanus%40gmail.com
> >
> >
> > To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> >
> > Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot- Visit
> > http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
> >
> > Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> > http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 31
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 17:09:38 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Becca <becca_price -at- yahoo -dot- com>
> To: TECHWR-L <techwr-l -at- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: publishing ebooks
> Message-ID:
> <1315526978 -dot- 62262 -dot- YahooMailNeo -at- web39607 -dot- mail -dot- mud -dot- yahoo -dot- com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> does anyone here publish their manuals or other documents in eformat?
>
> if so, what tools do you use? is your output epub only, or do you take into
> consideration Kindle users and create parallel files in mobi format?
>
> do you do things like specify fonts, line spacing, margins, and other
> typological elements? or do you let the device's internal formatting
> determine that stuff?
>
> do you need to use any html other than tables of contents and internal
> lists? do you have internal links, like jumps to footnotes or other sections
> of the book?
>
>
> (this is for a writing project for my tech writing class, but may have
> professional uses as well.)
>
> ?
> Thanks for any help you can give me!
>
> -becca
>
> =========================
> There are nine and sixty ways of constructing tribal lays
> And every single one of them is right!
> --Rudyard Kipling
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 32
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 17:15:31 -0700
> From: Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>
> To: TECHWR-L <techwr-l -at- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> Message-ID:
> <CAN3Yy4AyUOq5CGFW-dSt7HtrSnkv05zeMDV+k5VqGF_7e5XesA -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On my Vista system, in a Microsoft app, in a context when the
> right/left arrow will move you to a different menu, pressing Alt-<menu
> letter> does not do the same thing.
>
> Not that I care, I'm just saying the example is too vague to tell if
> it's two ways of accomplishing the same goal or a branch where you
> have to choose one of two mutually exclusive goals.
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Donna McManus <donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com>
> wrote:
> > That was an example I lifted from the Microsoft Manual of Style. I can't
> > specifically answer the question you posed.
> >
> > The question I'd asked was more one of construct of the
> > documentation/situation rather than a specific software question.
> >
> > I posted the location of the example I pulled from the manual in my
> original
> > post. Unless I miscopied (which is possible, I was just quickly typing up
> a
> > message), it was one provided by Microsoft. I didn't post an example
> > specific to my situation.
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> In what context do Alt-<menu letter> and the right/left arrow keys do
> >> the same thing?
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Donna McManus <donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > But they are each equally valid ways of accomplishing the same goal.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 7:02 PM, Robert Lauriston <
> robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Good rule, but the "or" example in the original post isn't two ways
> of
> >> >> doing the same thing, it's a branch where you can do one of two
> >> >> different things.
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Donna McManus <
> donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > ... If there are one or more equally valid methods of
> >> >> > doing something, choose the least complicated.
> >> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> >>
> >> >> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> >> >> Doc-To-Help.
> >> >> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> >> >> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> >> >> http://www.doctohelp.com
> >> >>
> >> >> ---
> >> >> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com -dot-
> >> >>
> >> >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> >> >> techwr-l-unsubscribe -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> >> >> or visit
> >> >>
> >> >>
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/donna.mcmanus%40gmail.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> >> >>
> >> >> Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot- Visit
> >> >> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
> >> >>
> >> >> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> >> >> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>
> >> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> >> Doc-To-Help.
> >> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> >> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> >> http://www.doctohelp.com
> >>
> >> ---
> >> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com -dot-
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> >> techwr-l-unsubscribe -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> >> or visit
> >>
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/donna.mcmanus%40gmail.com
> >>
> >>
> >> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> >>
> >> Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot- Visit
> >> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
> >>
> >> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> >> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 33
> Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 17:22:19 -0700
> From: Lauren <lauren -at- writeco -dot- net>
> To: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Subject: Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> Message-ID: <4E695C3B -dot- 1010001 -at- writeco -dot- net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I had one contract where the current lead technical writer said that the
> company discussed this rule for two full days. They wound up with a
> style guide rule that the conjunction "or" in this case *must* be used
> as a list separator between two enumerated items, offset with bold and
> with hyphens. I think "or" must also be capitalized. An example in
> their style follows that includes their usage of colons and what I can
> remember of the tab. The use of asterisks is for bold. Their rule may
> have required lowercase, but there was a discussion about whether the
> conjunction required upper- or lowercase.
>
> When there are two ways to perform a process:
>
> 1. Pick one option and use only that option.
>
> *- OR -*
>
> 2. List each option and separate the each option with "*- OR -*."
>
> <Help me.>
>
> I would not choose to enumerate the list and I prefer to state in
> advance how many ways there are to complete a given process and then
> follow that with a bulleted list of options.
>
> Lauren
>
>
>
> On 9/8/2011 12:48 PM, Donna McManus wrote:
> > All, I'm just gathering opinion. Feel free to opine away.
> >
> > I am seeing the use of the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> in
> > procedures. This is even given as an example in Microsoft's Manual of
> Style
> > (if you have the 3rd version, see p123):
> >
> > To open a menu:
> > - Press Alt+the key for the underlined letter in the menu name
> > -or-
> > - Use the LEFT ARROW key or the RIGHT ARROW key to move to another menu
> >
> > I'm more of the mind to write the procedure as:
> >
> > Use one of two methods to open a menu:
> > - Press Alt+the key for the underlined letter in the menu name
> > - Use the LEFT ARROW key or the RIGHT ARROW key to move to another menu
> >
> > What is your opinion? I can't quite put my finger on it, but it bugs me
> to
> > no end to have to be so explicit that we have to emphasize that two
> options
> > are mutually exclusive. Is this more for translation purposes that
> Microsoft
> > would recommend this?
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 34
> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2011 03:20:12 +0300
> From: David Grossman <dgrossman -at- 012 -dot- net -dot- il>
> To: techwr-l -at- techwr-l -dot- com
> Subject: RE: publishing ebooks
> Message-ID: <012601cc6e86$40b30990$c2191cb0$ -at- net -dot- il>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1255
>
> I'm retired, and I'm writing a series of books on many topics. They will be
> published in the nearly-ubiquitous PDF format, which I protect against
> copying and printing by using the full version of Adobe Acrobat.
>
> I already distribute some of the draft versions of the books to people in
> order to get their feedback. The system doesn't work that well, because
> people want hard copy or the ability to make comments directly on the
> document.
>
> David Grossman
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: techwr-l-bounces+dgrossman=012 -dot- net -dot- il -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> [mailto:techwr-l-bounces+dgrossman=012 -dot- net -dot- il -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com] On
> Behalf
> Of Becca
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 3:10 AM
> To: TECHWR-L
> Subject: publishing ebooks
>
> does anyone here publish their manuals or other documents in eformat?
>
> if so, what tools do you use? is your output epub only, or do you take into
> consideration Kindle users and create parallel files in mobi format?
>
> do you do things like specify fonts, line spacing, margins, and other
> typological elements? or do you let the device's internal formatting
> determine that stuff?
>
> do you need to use any html other than tables of contents and internal
> lists? do you have internal links, like jumps to footnotes or other
> sections
> of the book?
>
>
> (this is for a writing project for my tech writing class, but may have
> professional uses as well.)
>
> ?
> Thanks for any help you can give me!
>
> -becca
>
> =========================
> There are nine and sixty ways of constructing tribal lays
> And every single one of them is right!
> --Rudyard Kipling
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as dgrossman -at- 012 -dot- net -dot- il -dot-
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-unsubscribe -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/dgrossman%40012.net.il
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
>
> Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot- Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 35
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 18:03:34 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Marguerite Krupp <mkrupp128 -at- yahoo -dot- com>
> To: David Grossman <dgrossman -at- 012 -dot- net -dot- il>, "techwr-l -at- techwr-l -dot- com"
> <techwr-l -at- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: Re: publishing ebooks
> Message-ID:
> <1315530214 -dot- 34834 -dot- YahooMailNeo -at- web160618 -dot- mail -dot- bf1 -dot- yahoo -dot- com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hi David,
>
> Your readers can comment on your draft using plain Adobe Reader if you turn
> on the Enable Commenting... feature when you save the pdf with your full
> copy of Acrobat. No special software required on their end.? Sorry that I
> don't recall the full name of the feature, but it's somewhere near the
> middle of the toolbar, possibly on the Tools menu. Drat! I work on too many
> computers with different software configurations!
>
> HTH,
> Marguerite
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: David Grossman <dgrossman -at- 012 -dot- net -dot- il>
> To: techwr-l -at- techwr-l -dot- com
> Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 8:20 PM
> Subject: RE: publishing ebooks
>
> I'm retired, and I'm writing a series of books on many topics. They will be
> published in the nearly-ubiquitous PDF format, which I protect against
> copying and printing by using the full version of Adobe Acrobat.
>
> I already distribute some of the draft versions of the books to people in
> order to get their feedback. The system doesn't work that well, because
> people want hard copy or the ability to make comments directly on the
> document.
>
> David Grossman
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: techwr-l-bounces+dgrossman=012 -dot- net -dot- il -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> [mailto:techwr-l-bounces+dgrossman=012 -dot- net -dot- il -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com] On
> Behalf
> Of Becca
> Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 3:10 AM
> To: TECHWR-L
> Subject: publishing ebooks
>
> does anyone here publish their manuals or other documents in eformat?
>
> if so, what tools do you use? is your output epub only, or do you take into
> consideration Kindle users and create parallel files in mobi format?
>
> do you do things like specify fonts, line spacing, margins, and other
> typological elements? or do you let the device's internal formatting
> determine that stuff?
>
> do you need to use any html other than tables of contents and internal
> lists? do you have internal links, like jumps to footnotes or other
> sections
> of the book?
>
>
> (this is for a writing project for my tech writing class, but may have
> professional uses as well.)
>
> ?
> Thanks for any help you can give me!
>
> -becca
>
> =========================
> There are nine and sixty ways of constructing tribal lays
> And every single one of them is right!
> --Rudyard Kipling
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as dgrossman -at- 012 -dot- net -dot- il -dot-
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-unsubscribe -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/dgrossman%40012.net.il
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
>
> Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot- Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> Doc-To-Help.
> Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> http://www.doctohelp.com
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as mkrupp128 -at- yahoo -dot- com -dot-
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> techwr-l-unsubscribe -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> or visit
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/mkrupp128%40yahoo.com
>
>
> To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
>
> Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot- Visit
> http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
>
> Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 36
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 21:13:23 -0400
> From: Donna McManus <donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com>
> To: Lauren <lauren -at- writeco -dot- net>
> Cc: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> Subject: Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> Message-ID:
> <CA+ekUZTsW71NC60FtKeDs+fiot4roVr9ASUqZYtbwE9WwsQPVA -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> This is the kind of sticky wicket logic that I strive hard to avoid.
> Perhaps
> I ought to take the zen approach on this and just accept it, but I just
> can't.
>
> Using the or conjunction indicates that these are not sequential. It is a
> decision point. If you do A, then something follows. If you do B, then
> something else follows.
>
> Using mutually exclusive choices means making either choice leads you down
> the same path. So perhaps I'm being thick headed or simple minded.
>
> I've seen/worked with style guides that state similar as well, and I want
> to
> bang my head. We don't have a style guide per se. I'm in an environment now
> where it's all in one person's head. And hopefully that won't lead to style
> guides based simply on personal preferences--either mine or someone else's.
> But on this issue, I think my difficulty lies in three ideas that came to
> mind immediately when reading Mark's post.
>
> 1) it assumes the reader is not very bright and can't distinguish between a
> pair of choices that will give him the same result
> 2) it's a waste of breath (or words)
> 3) when OS changes come along or software is upgraded, both choices have to
> be re-validated (which leads to insanity when you have tons of docs that
> use
> this approach)
>
> When I think about it, at least in the audience that I'm writing to, they
> don't want to waste time thinking about which fork in the road to take.
> They're on a production line. Give them the clearest, shortest, easiest
> path
> to the goal: make the mark on the part. Besides, I don't want my job
> security to come from having to update more text than necessary. I want my
> job security to come from the fact I can produce clean, understandable,
> appropriate text and be more creative.
>
> Ugh is right.
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Lauren <lauren -at- writeco -dot- net> wrote:
>
> > I had one contract where the current lead technical writer said that the
> > company discussed this rule for two full days. They wound up with a
> style
> > guide rule that the conjunction "or" in this case *must* be used as a
> list
> > separator between two enumerated items, offset with bold and with
> hyphens.
> > I think "or" must also be capitalized. An example in their style
> follows
> > that includes their usage of colons and what I can remember of the tab.
> The
> > use of asterisks is for bold. Their rule may have required lowercase,
> but
> > there was a discussion about whether the conjunction required upper- or
> > lowercase.
> >
> > When there are two ways to perform a process:
> >
> > 1. Pick one option and use only that option.
> >
> > *- OR -*
> >
> > 2. List each option and separate the each option with "*- OR -*."
> >
> > <Help me.>
> >
> > I would not choose to enumerate the list and I prefer to state in advance
> > how many ways there are to complete a given process and then follow that
> > with a bulleted list of options.
> >
> > Lauren
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9/8/2011 12:48 PM, Donna McManus wrote:
> >
> >> All, I'm just gathering opinion. Feel free to opine away.
> >>
> >> I am seeing the use of the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> in
> >> procedures. This is even given as an example in Microsoft's Manual of
> >> Style
> >> (if you have the 3rd version, see p123):
> >>
> >> To open a menu:
> >> - Press Alt+the key for the underlined letter in the menu name
> >> -or-
> >> - Use the LEFT ARROW key or the RIGHT ARROW key to move to another menu
> >>
> >> I'm more of the mind to write the procedure as:
> >>
> >> Use one of two methods to open a menu:
> >> - Press Alt+the key for the underlined letter in the menu name
> >> - Use the LEFT ARROW key or the RIGHT ARROW key to move to another menu
> >>
> >> What is your opinion? I can't quite put my finger on it, but it bugs me
> to
> >> no end to have to be so explicit that we have to emphasize that two
> >> options
> >> are mutually exclusive. Is this more for translation purposes that
> >> Microsoft
> >> would recommend this?
> >>
> >
> >
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^**^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> > Doc-To-Help.
> > Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> > Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> > http://www.doctohelp.com
> >
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com -dot-
> >
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > techwr-l-unsubscribe -at- lists -dot- **techwr-l -dot- com<
> techwr-l-unsubscribe -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> > or visit http://lists.techwr-l.com/**mailman/options/techwr-l/**
> > donna.mcmanus%40gmail.com<
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/donna.mcmanus%40gmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> > To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- **com<
> techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> >
> > Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot- Visit
> > http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
> >
> > Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> > http://lists.techwr-l.com/**mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat<
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat>
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 37
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 18:49:46 -0700
> From: Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>
> To: TECHWR-L <techwr-l -at- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: Re: publishing ebooks
> Message-ID:
> <CAN3Yy4DBRtAq0gc_E8LZZcun-X63K7r3h=ue_8+KNFLXbk1fQA -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> A high percentage of technical publications are distributed in PDF
> format, but it doesn't sound like you're asking about that.
>
> There's not enough of a demand for other e-book formats that tools
> vendors have added them. Given near-universal support for PDF, I doubt
> that will change any time soon.
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Becca <becca_price -at- yahoo -dot- com> wrote:
> > does anyone here publish their manuals or other documents in eformat?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 38
> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2011 11:55:49 +1000
> From: Janice Gelb <janice -dot- gelb -at- oracle -dot- com>
> To: techwr-l -at- techwr-l -dot- com
> Subject: Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> Message-ID: <4E697225 -dot- 4070306 -at- oracle -dot- com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On Sep 9, 2011 11:13AM, Donna McManus wrote:
> > This is the kind of sticky wicket logic that I strive hard to avoid.
> Perhaps
> > I ought to take the zen approach on this and just accept it, but I just
> > can't.
> >
> > Using the or conjunction indicates that these are not sequential. It is a
> > decision point. If you do A, then something follows. If you do B, then
> > something else follows.
> >
> > Using mutually exclusive choices means making either choice leads you
> down
> > the same path. So perhaps I'm being thick headed or simple minded.
>
> I think one of the problems here might be that the example
> from the Microsoft Manual of Style is not very good. It says
> that it's illustrating branching but it isn't really. Although
> it shows two different ways to get to a menu, the methods
> are not beginning from the same starting point. With one,
> you are operating within the application and have decided
> to open a menu (Alt+first letter). With the other, you're already
> looking at one menu and are moving to another one within
> the menu bar (arrow keys). This is neither branching nor
> equal alternatives but two different actions.
>
> In the example presented, I'd use two different steps:
>
> * To open a menu, press Alt+ the key for the underlined
> letter in the menu name.
>
> * To move among menus, use the left arrow or right arrow
> key to move to the next menu to the left or right.
>
> For equal alternatives (using a simple example that I know in
> real life doesn't really need to be explained in this detail):
>
> You can access a menu option using either of the following methods:
>
> * Press Alt + the key for the underlined letter in the menu name.
>
> * Click the menu name in the menu bar and then choose the
> desired option.
>
> As I stated previously, I dislike the "or" construction, which
> I find awkward. I think the reader should get relevant information
> at the start -- presenting one option and then indicating only after
> that option that there is another option being presented seems
> poorly structured to me, although I know many people use this
> method. It also wastes vertical space and distracts the eye.
>
> -- Janice
>
> **************************************************************
> Janice Gelb | The only connection Oracle has with
> janice -dot- gelb -at- oracle -dot- com | this message is the return address
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 39
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 22:18:53 -0400
> From: Donna McManus <donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com>
> To: Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>
> Cc: TECHWR-L <techwr-l -at- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: Re: publishing ebooks
> Message-ID:
> <CA+ekUZRvMeiXdHhN6H-32ucRBc-bhdH0S-MnRqXnR=3kvt+HRg -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> I'm not familiar with the .mobi format. I don't use a Nook, a Kindle, Smart
> Phone, or a table. I use a good old fashioned light-weight laptop. (Gee,
> not
> too long ago that would have been an odd statement.)
>
> But I started to look into doing documentation for such platforms earlier
> this year. I was involved in a project that created a closed network camera
> surveillance system. Basically, the need was for creating maintenance and
> usage information for each installation so that we would train a team of
> trainers and maintainers and they then would take ownership of the system
> and train a bunch of cadets. Must say, I didn't find a lot of options out
> there and the customer was the government, whose requirements were
> paper-based documentation. .
>
> That said, I saw a perfect application for a mobi platform for
> documentation. These systems were installed on remote base locations, and
> when they had questions or wanted to trouble shoot something or know how to
> replace a battery, the choices were to either go back to the office (drive)
> or carry a bunch of printed material in their vehicles. A mobi platform
> would have been perfect here: all these 20-something leaders carried Smart
> Phones. The documentation would have been much more convenient and suited
> to
> their purpose in that environment.
>
> Too bad the government likes paper or deliverables they can touch like a
> disk. I would have LOVED to have found a way to do this--dish up dox to
> guys
> in the field when they needed them, at the time they needed them, in a way
> that would not have inconvenienced them.
>
> I too am surprised that there isn't enough demand for e-book format,
> especially for support purposes. I wonder why that is. I can see cases for
> creating that demand. Why would not, for example, a Dummies book, be not a
> good application for an e-book? Why is it that just novels, etc. are
> suitable for e-books?
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 9:49 PM, Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com
> >wrote:
>
> > A high percentage of technical publications are distributed in PDF
> > format, but it doesn't sound like you're asking about that.
> >
> > There's not enough of a demand for other e-book formats that tools
> > vendors have added them. Given near-universal support for PDF, I doubt
> > that will change any time soon.
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 5:09 PM, Becca <becca_price -at- yahoo -dot- com> wrote:
> > > does anyone here publish their manuals or other documents in eformat?
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > Create and publish documentation through multiple channels with
> > Doc-To-Help.
> > Choose your authoring formats and get any output you may need. Try
> > Doc-To-Help, now with MS SharePoint integration, free for 30-days.
> > http://www.doctohelp.com
> >
> > ---
> > You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com -dot-
> >
> > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > techwr-l-unsubscribe -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> > or visit
> >
> http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/options/techwr-l/donna.mcmanus%40gmail.com
> >
> >
> > To subscribe, send a blank email to techwr-l-join -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> >
> > Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot- Visit
> > http://www.techwr-l.com/ for more resources and info.
> >
> > Please move off-topic discussions to the Chat list, at:
> > http://lists.techwr-l.com/mailman/listinfo/techwr-l-chat
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 40
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 19:24:53 -0700
> From: Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>
> To: techwr-l -at- techwr-l -dot- com
> Subject: Re: Using the conjunction OR in mutually exclusive options
> Message-ID:
> <CAN3Yy4Dx5tP-km6fQXgaqv_vJJkyEH28mOfkVkdeB861pgSFNQ -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> The original example was:
>
> To open a menu:
> - Press Alt+the key for the underlined letter in the menu name
> -or-
> - Use the LEFT ARROW key or the RIGHT ARROW key to move to another menu
>
> These won't both work from the same starting point. A menu has to be
> open for the arrow keys to navigate to another one. The menus have to
> be closed for Alt-<menu letter> to open one.
>
> Is that really a verbatim quote from the Microsoft MSTP?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 41
> Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 19:31:20 -0700
> From: Robert Lauriston <robert -at- lauriston -dot- com>
> To: TECHWR-L <techwr-l -at- techwr-l -dot- com>
> Subject: Re: publishing ebooks
> Message-ID:
> <CAN3Yy4D0A3OA+PmS3aOXYbtEBaz4WLTQORHptgii7MYp6KX7Og -at- mail -dot- gmail -dot- com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Dummies books are available in Kindle format on Amazon, but PDF
> usually makes more sense than a proprietary format tied to a
> particular platform.
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 7:18 PM, Donna McManus <donna -dot- mcmanus -at- gmail -dot- com>
> wrote:
> > creating that demand. Why would not, for example, a Dummies book, be not
> a
> > good application for an e-book? Why is it that just novels, etc. are
> > suitable for e-books?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of TECHWR-L Digest, Vol 71, Issue 8
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>
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