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Re: Re: Re: It doesn't look good for Tina the Tech Writer ... OK, this makes for a good segue
Subject:
Re: Re: Re: It doesn't look good for Tina the Tech Writer ... OK, this makes for a good segue
From:
Vincent <vincentpr -at- trfnova -dot- com>
To:
techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
Date:
Tue, 18 Oct 2016 15:45:10 -0500 (CDT)
Sticking with the core topic threads (Tina the TW, and my comments on
TW recognition general):
I certainly agree with the many points made by one of this forum's
contributors in response to my submission on this:
Indeed, if there were a TW certification, HR/hiring managers would or
could use that qualification to filter applications. But I like to
think that will serve as a motivation for continuing education among us
(yes, I am deliberately mixing tenses for effect).
Indeed, the recognition of a TW will never be what it should be until
development (and other) managers recognize our true level of
contribution (and stop thinking of some of you as labor and low on the
totem pole).
Also, I chuckled a bit when I read the analogy to 'brussel sprout'
cake. Firstly, I neglected to fully think forward that I was writing
to other writers with creative satire. Secondly, I love brussel spouts
-- grilled or broiled -- but have never contemplated them in a cake.
However, I have been inspired by this to develop a recipe for using
them in quiche.
Having said all that: While I respectfully agree with your perspective
points, I still think that TW certification is good idea, would be a
benefit to those who want to make a FULL career of technical writing,
would ultimately result in more competitive compensation, and simply
would raise the professionalism and skill-specialty acceptance of TWs
in general. It would subsequently foster the manager recognition in
concern.
Sir Vincent
On 10/18/16, Julie Stickler<jstickler -at- gmail -dot- com> wrote:
Not to be a curmudgeon, but this conversation thread has drifted from
being
about Tina or about technical writing and is getting dangerously close
to
starting to talk about politics.
I've had my fill of politics lately and would like to avoid it on
TECHWR-L
if at all possible.
Thanks!
Back to the word mines for me.
On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Kathleen MacDowell
<[1]kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
> wrote:
> I don't know much abt his preferred candidate, but that post strikes
a lot
> of chords for me. Always nice to have someone else to blame for once
...,
> although it'll be cringeworthy. I also think political think has
nothing
> much to do with gender.
>
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ron Hearn <[2]rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com>
wrote:
>
> >
> > Further to yesterday's discussion on Scot's attitudes toward women,
there
> > is this from his blog last week:
> >
> > [3]http://blog.dilbert.com/post/151737656851/the-era-of-women
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: techwr-l-boun[4]ces+rhearn=cucbc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
[mailto:
> > techwr-l-boun[5]ces+rhearn=cucbc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com] On Behalf
Of Keith
> > Hood
> > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2016 1:56 PM
> > To: [6]vincentpr -at- trfnova -dot- com
> > Cc: techwr-l <[7]techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com>
> > Subject: Re: Re: It doesn't look good for Tina the Tech Writer ...
OK,
> > this makes for a good segue
> >
> > I agree that a good tech writer is just as valuable to the company
as an
> > engineer. But my experience has proven to me beyond any possible
doubt
> that
> > the overwhelming majority of managers who make the retention
decisions do
> > not agree.
> >
> > Another certification in a field which is not valued by the people
who
> > make the retention decisions is not going to help. That's kind of
like
> > having a dozen layers of frosting on a Brussels sprout cake. It's
not
> going
> > to win the baking competition.
> >
> > What needs to happen is for someone to finally come up with a way
to
> PROVE
> > that the tech writer's work adds value to the product. There has to
be
> some
> > way to express it in numbers and show that the work really does
bump up
> the
> > bottom line on the quarterly report. Until that happens,
certifications
> may
> > be useful in grading applicants for hiring decisions, but they will
be
> > meaningless to retention.
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 3:10 PM, Vincent <[8]vincentpr -at- trfnova -dot- com>
wrote:
> >
> > > Friends,
> > > When the first rush of replies on this flowed in, I got angrier
and
> > > angrier as I quickly parsed. Angry at y'all that is (no
disrespect
> > > intended here) for missing the critical issue against your
current
> > > chosen profession. I wanted to write then but I too, as Kathleen
> > > understands, must choose my fires to quench. At the moment, I
have
> a
> > > little time.
> > > Being too long involved in IT, I have chuckled at select Dilberts
> now
> > > and again when people have point them out, but I have never been
an
> > > avid fan. That, and Mr. Adams' gender imbalance :)
notwithstanding,
> > > the real insult within the Dilbert installment under discussion
is
> > that
> > > the TW character is being presented as less valuable than an
> inherent
> > > engineer asset. Nothing could be more untruthful or a better
> example
> > > of program management misperception.
> > > Yes, of course certain senior engineers -- and even engineers
with
> > > seniority -- are essential and invaluable to an R&D team, and
> deserve
> > > to recognized as such. However, generally speaking, good
engineers
> > are
> > > readily available and replaceable, but a good technical writer is
> not.
> > > The experienced and capable technical writer, while he or she
> suffers
> > > being regarded as a peer -- and mistakenly by Mr. Adams less --
is
> > > actually senior in contribution to most engineers. Without the
> > > documentation process, application worklfow errors, system design
> > > errors, database architecture endless loops, and coding foopahs
of
> > > every rushed and improperly tested kind would make it passed the
> > > staging cycle. Without proper documentation there is lessened
> > > accountability to management. The technical writer is above an
> > > engineer. Engineers who don't take a TW's request for a meeting
> > > seriously probably shouldn't be trusted to do their own work
> > > excellently and should be let go.
> > > Having spent some time working inside federal agencies, it always
> > > bothered me how silly it is for the way PMP certification is
> esteemed
> > > (again, no disrespect intended, but experience trumps the PMP
> > > certificate 100% of the time). I have long had a dream that
> technical
> > > writers need their own certification, such CPTW (Certified
> > Professional
> > > Technical Writer), likened to CPCM, CFCM, and to have that
> credential
> > > promoted and recognized properly. And while I have spawned many
> ideas
> > > on how to chase that dream, I am only now getting to
semi-retirement
> > > hours so that perhaps I can.
> > > Thoughts? Reactions? Anyone want to work on/pursue establishment
> of
> > > CPTW with me?
> > > Vincent
> > > [9]www.linkedin.com/in/vincentpasqualeruvolo
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/17/16, Kathleen MacDowell<[10]kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com>
wrote:
> > >
> > > It's been interesting to see everyone's interpretations, which
are
> > > sometimes much deeper than my own.
> > > I haven't seen Dilbert for many years, but I've always viewed him
> > > similar
> > > to a Tom and Jerry (or any other) cartoon.
> > > He managed to convey my feelings about some of the idiocies we
> > > encounter at
> > > work; ah yes, restraining the fist of death.
> > > Sad to say, some people have real grudges that are expressed in
the
> > > real
> > > world. And truly, as hard some of the work/life realities are to
> bear
> > > sometimes, we have a lot more pressing things to deal with right
> now.
> > > Most of us are subject to some kind of inequalities, some of us
more
> > > than
> > > others. It would be wonderful if it could be reduced...
> > > Kathleen
> > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 12:46 PM, kafkascampi
> > > <[1][11]kafkascampi -at- gmail -dot- com> wrote:
> > > > Not to be a buzzkill (which means I am totally about to be a
> > > > buzzkill), Scott Adams has some controversial views about women
in
> > > the
> > > > workplace. This is one of the reasons I choose not to support
him.
> > > >
> > > > Read more here:
> > > > [2][12]http://comicsalliance.com/scott-adam-sexist-mens-rights/
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Tony Chung <[3]
> [13]tonyc -at- tonychung -dot- ca>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > False alarm. A week later Tina agrees to be pointy head's
"work
> > > wife"
> > > > > [4][14]http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-14
> > > > >
> > > > > -Tony (also in Vancouver)
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thursday, 6 October 2016, Ron Hearn
<[5][15]rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Looks like Tina is getting the axe in today's Dilbert:
> > > > >> [6][16]http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-06
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Ron Hearn
> > > > >> Documentation Specialist
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Central 1 Credit Union
> > > > >> 1441 Creekside Drive
> > > > >> Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
> > > > >> V6J 4S7
> > > > >>
> > > > >> [7][17]rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
> > > <javascript:;><[8][18]mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
> > > > >> <javascript:;>>
> > > > >> Tel: 604.730.6391
> > > > >> Fax: 604.730-7792
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > > > Visit TechWhirl for the latest on content technology, content
> > > strategy
> > > > and content development | [9][19]http://techwhirl.com
> > > > >
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> > > > >
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> > .
> > > > >
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> > > > >
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> [26]kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
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> > > --
> > > Kathleen MacDowell
> > > [19][31]kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
> > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > Visit TechWhirl for the latest on content technology, content
> strategy
> > > and content development | [20][32]http://techwhirl.com
> > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > You are currently subscribed to TECHWR-L as
vincentpr -at- trfnova -dot- com -dot-
> > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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> > > Send administrative questions to admin -at- techwr-l -dot- com -dot- Visit
> > > [22][34]http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/ for
more
> > > resources and info.
> > > Looking for articles on Technical Communications? Head over to
our
> > > online magazine at [23][35]http://techwhirl.com
> > > Looking for the archived Techwr-l email discussions? Search our
> public
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> > >
> > > References
> > >
> > > 1. [37]mailto:kafkascampi -at- gmail -dot- com
> > > 2. [38]http://comicsalliance.com/scott-adam-sexist-mens-rights/
> > > 3. [39]mailto:tonyc -at- tonychung -dot- ca
> > > 4. [40]http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-14
> > > 5. [41]mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
> > > 6. [42]http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-06
> > > 7. [43]mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
> > > 8. [44]mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
> > > 9. [45]http://techwhirl.com/
> > > 10. [46]mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> > > 11. [47]http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
> > > 12. [48]http://techwhirl.com/
> > > 13. [49]http://techwr-l.com/archives
> > > 14. [50]http://techwhirl.com/
> > > 15. [51]mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> > > 16. [52]http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
> > > 17. [53]http://techwhirl.com/
> > > 18. [54]http://techwr-l.com/archives
> > > 19. [55]mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
> > > 20. [56]http://techwhirl.com/
> > > 21. [57]mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
> > > 22. [58]http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
> > > 23. [59]http://techwhirl.com/
> > > 24. [60]http://techwr-l.com/archives
> > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > Visit TechWhirl for the latest on content technology, content
strategy
> > > and content development | [61]http://techwhirl.com
> > >
> > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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resources
> > > and info.
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> > > Looking for articles on Technical Communications? Head over to
our
> > > online magazine at [64]http://techwhirl.com
> > >
> > > Looking for the archived Techwr-l email discussions? Search our
> > > public email archives @ [65]http://techwr-l.com/archives
> > >
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > Visit TechWhirl for the latest on content technology, content
strategy
> and
> > content development | [66]http://techwhirl.com
> >
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>
> --
> Kathleen MacDowell
> [76]kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Visit TechWhirl for the latest on content technology, content
strategy and
> content development | [77]http://techwhirl.com
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--
Julie Stickler
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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References
1. mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
2. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
3. http://blog.dilbert.com/post/151737656851/the-era-of-women
4. mailto:ces+rhearn=cucbc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
5. mailto:ces+rhearn=cucbc -dot- com -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
6. mailto:vincentpr -at- trfnova -dot- com
7. mailto:techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
8. mailto:vincentpr -at- trfnova -dot- com
9. http://www.linkedin.com/in/vincentpasqualeruvolo
10. mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
11. mailto:kafkascampi -at- gmail -dot- com
12. http://comicsalliance.com/scott-adam-sexist-mens-rights/
13. mailto:tonyc -at- tonychung -dot- ca
14. http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-14
15. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
16. http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-06
17. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
18. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
19. http://techwhirl.com/
20. mailto:kafkascampi -at- gmail -dot- com
21. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
22. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
23. http://techwhirl.com/
24. http://techwr-l.com/archives
25. http://techwhirl.com/
26. mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
27. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
28. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
29. http://techwhirl.com/
30. http://techwr-l.com/archives
31. mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
32. http://techwhirl.com/
33. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
34. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
35. http://techwhirl.com/
36. http://techwr-l.com/archives
37. mailto:kafkascampi -at- gmail -dot- com
38. http://comicsalliance.com/scott-adam-sexist-mens-rights/
39. mailto:tonyc -at- tonychung -dot- ca
40. http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-14
41. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
42. http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-10-06
43. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
44. mailto:rhearn -at- central1 -dot- com
45. http://techwhirl.com/
46. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
47. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
48. http://techwhirl.com/
49. http://techwr-l.com/archives
50. http://techwhirl.com/
51. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
52. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
53. http://techwhirl.com/
54. http://techwr-l.com/archives
55. mailto:kathleen -dot- eamd -at- gmail -dot- com
56. http://techwhirl.com/
57. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
58. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
59. http://techwhirl.com/
60. http://techwr-l.com/archives
61. http://techwhirl.com/
62. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
63. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
64. http://techwhirl.com/
65. http://techwr-l.com/archives
66. http://techwhirl.com/
67. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
68. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
69. http://techwhirl.com/
70. http://techwr-l.com/archives
71. http://techwhirl.com/
72. mailto:techwr-l-leave -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com
73. http://www.techwhirl.com/email-discussion-groups/
74. http://techwhirl.com/
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