Re: IS or ARE SUMMARY OF RESPONSES >>> LONG <<<

[John Posada <jposada -at- NOTES -dot- CC -dot- BELLCORE -dot- COM>]

Guys...

Yesterday, I posted the question regarding data is/are and I got a bunch of
responses back real fast.  Thougt you might like to see the responses before I
erase them.

Thanks for the input.  I'm going with "data is" form.

Which brings me to another subject...Effective the end of today (Friday), I'll
be signing off this list for a few days.  I'm a contractor and I'm changing
assignments.  I currently work at Bellcore, though effective next Tuesday, I'll
be starting a new assignment at Ernst & Young in Lyndhurst, NJ.  In addition to
doing proposals, I'll also be doing marketing communications, internet and
intranet development, database development and Lotus Notes development
corporate wide.

It's an interesting position and the pay is substantially more. I like to think
that I wouldn't have been able to ask for more without some of the things that
I learned from you guys.   See ya in a few days.


John Posada
john -at- tdandw -dot- com (personal account)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: clienhart @ prevuenet.com (Christine Lienhart) @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 02:53:41 PM
Subject: RE: IS or ARE

I vote "is."

People rarely say "datum" for a single piece of data.


From: Williams_Diane @ dote.osd.mil ("Williams, Diane (contractor)") @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 03:58:11 PM
Subject: RE: IS or ARE

I usually like to think of data as "information," which is a collective
singular; so I'd use "is." But other folks like it to be plural, so they
use "are."

I think it can be either, just be consistent in how you use it.

Diane


From: dhays @ NOVALIS.COM (Dennis Hays) @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 04:00:54 PM
Subject: Re: IS or ARE

I say:

Real-time data displays...


Dennis
Dennis Hays
Novalis Corporation
Telephone: 518/862-3465
eMail: dhays -at- novalis -dot- com

From: reg13 @ pionet.net (Rogers George) @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 02:54:29 PM
Subject: Re: IS or ARE

You're going to get a lot of replies to this one.
The simple answer is how academic do you want to be? The more academic
and professional, the more you should use "are." Scientific American,
for example, uses "are."

The pundits will go into a bit more detail and say that if you are
referring to the individual pieces of information, use plural, and if
you're referring to the whole body of collected information, use
singular.

Consider doing whatever your boss says. :)
--
Best wishes,
Rogers George (reg13 -at- pionet -dot- net)

From: aamsler @ UDel.Edu (Ann Amsler) @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 03:56:41 PM
Subject: Re: IS or ARE

I'd say "are". Just stopped our resident statistician in the hall, and he
also said "are" is correct.

Ann Amsler
Information Resource Consultant
University of Delaware

From: et @ dsc.com ("Tamminga, Ernie") @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 01:02:24 PM
Subject: RE: IS or ARE

I think the struggle over that one is just about over...  "data" has
emerged as a collective noun.  In the USA it sounds kind of archaic to
say "the data are collected..." (that would sound fine in Britain, where
collective nouns take the plural anyway...)

Much to my dismay, a parallel thing seems to be happening with
"criterion" and "criteria".  Gratingly often in speech and in writing, I
see "the main criteria is...".
That one still makes me go "aarrgghh", and in fact I'd be loath to hire
a tech writer who used it that way.
But the distinction between datum/data feels to me, anyway, as belonging
to an earlier age.
  My 3cts worth, adjusted for inflation.
--------
Ernie Tamminga
Director, InfoEngineering
Digital Sound Corporation

From: et @ DSC.COM ("Tamminga, Ernie") @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 01:02:24 PM
Subject: Re: IS or ARE

I think the struggle over that one is just about over...  "data" has
emerged as a collective noun.  In the USA it sounds kind of archaic to
say "the data are collected..." (that would sound fine in Britain, where
collective nouns take the plural anyway...)

Much to my dismay, a parallel thing seems to be happening with
"criterion" and "criteria".  Gratingly often in speech and in writing, I
see "the main criteria is...".
That one still makes me go "aarrgghh", and in fact I'd be loath to hire
a tech writer who used it that way.
But the distinction between datum/data feels to me, anyway, as belonging
to an earlier age.
  My 3cts worth, adjusted for inflation.
--------
Ernie Tamminga
Director, InfoEngineering
Digital Sound Corporation


From: hillary @ NICHIMEN.COM (Hillary Jones) @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 01:04:48 PM
Subject: Re: IS or ARE

The word "data" is plural so technically you should use "are." But
grammar is evolving all the time, so you could say "is" without the
world coming to an end and then tell critiquers that you're changing a
paradigm! ;-)

******************************
Hillary Jones
hillary -at- nichimen -dot- com

******************************
From: pagantt @ postoffice.worldnet.att.net (Pat Gantt) @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 04:03:58 PM
Subject: Re: IS or ARE

Data are

Sounds awful huh?

Data is plural for datum.

Har! <Boo boo intended>

--
Pat Gantt ~ pagantt -at- worldnet -dot- att -dot- net
The University of Tennessee ~ M.S. HRD
Electronic Performance Support Systems
http://members.tripod.com/~votechstudy/index.html
Doing it the hard way is always easier :^)

From: Rikki.Mitman @ COMPAQ.com ("Mitman, Rikki") @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 03:09:04 PM
Subject: RE: IS or ARE

Bet you get a lot of mail on this one!

I view data as a collective noun, and say "is."

Let's see what the rest of the gang has to say.

From: meekd @ WSERVER.DO.LOSRIOS.CC.CA.US (Dave Meek) @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 01:31:12 PM
Subject: Re: IS or ARE

I'm assuming you have a reason for the passive construction of your sentence
and that you can't or won't change it.  Given that assumption:

My AHD lists "datum" as the singular form and "data" as the plural.
However, I can't remember ever hearing or reading "datum" except in the
dictionary.  My experience is that common usage favors "data is displayed."

If you're a stickler for technical adherence to grammar rules, "data are
displayed" would be your best choice.  By that same token, you would have to
choose "Real-time data provide information for making instant decisions"
(which I think sounds awful) over "Real-time data provides information for
making instant decisions."  For me, the first one sounds like a British
usage, such as "The staff are happy to serve you."

From: nmcdonald @ otech.com (Nancy McDonald) @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 04:18:26 PM
Subject: Re: IS or ARE

JOHN: I think it's a collective noun, so use singular... (who can
remember their latin???)
IMHO, Nancy McDonald,
tech writer, cols, oh.

From: bsullivan @ smtplink.deltecpower.com (Bill Sullivan) @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 01:18:40 PM
Subject: IS or ARE -Reply

John,

I believe it is a matter of choice or preference. Style, if you will.
Generally, it's the scientists and the mathematicians and the
otherwise supposedly better educated who opt for data are. We
hoi-palloi and TV-brains go with data is.

So look to your audience.

Bill Sullivan (replying privately)
bsullivan -at- deltecpower -dot- com
San Diego, California

From: j_grey @ WRITEANGLES.COM (joanne grey) @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 01:31:22 PM
Subject: Re: IS or ARE

While "are" would be technically correct, I guess, I've always heard it
as "data IS displayed" unless it is  "the thingamahobbie displays the
data".
________________________________________________________
Joanne Grey                   http://www.writeangles.com
Write Angles                  j_grey -at- writeangles -dot- com

Free advice generally costs more than the other kind.

From: lklopp @ ionet.net (lfk) @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 03:39:12 PM
Subject: Re: IS or ARE

John--

I have seen "data" used as both singular and plural.  The correct usage
would be "are" for the plural; however, I would agree with you and use "is"
as the current usage.  I tend to think of data as a singular.

Don't know if my opinion helps you much.

Laura.

From: Arlen.P.Walker @ JCI.COM ("Walker, Arlen P") @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 03:47:31 PM
Subject: Re: IS or ARE

      Real-time data "is" displayed...   or   Real-time data "are"
      displayed....
      I want to say "is", but data is a plural so should I use "are"?

I'd go for "is" as well. "Data" has become a singular through common usage;
using it as plural will only make you sound snooty.

I suppose if you're writing for a British audience it would be plural, like
government, committee and similar words.


Have fun,
Arlen
Chief Managing Director In Charge, Department of Redundancy Department
DNRC 224

Arlen -dot- P -dot- Walker -at- JCI -dot- Com
----------------------------------------------
In God we trust; all others must provide data.
----------------------------------------------
Opinions expressed are mine and mine alone.
If JCI had an opinion on this, they'd hire someone else to deliver it.

From: HeliR @ msmailhq.netimage.com (Heli Roosild) @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 05:02:00 PM
Subject: RE: IS or ARE

John,

I believe the list had a lengthy discussion of this some time back.  If I
remember correctly, the consensus was that "data" has become a collective
noun in the computer world.  Hence, "... data is displayed ..." would be
preferable.

This does not apply in the UK, where they use plural verbs with
collective nouns.

BTW, _please_ do not follow the suggestion to say "... data displays ..."
unless you follow it with an object ("... data displays the growth in
sales ...").  For most of us, the use of "display" as an intransitive
verb is still reserved for the mating habits of assorted fowl.


~~Heli
helir -at- netimage -dot- com

From: ElleboRoom @ aol.com @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 05:49:31 PM
Subject: Re: IS or ARE

Response:  This is taken from The Holt Handbook (Used it in my college Comp &
Rhetoric class)
A collective noun names a group of persons or things -- for instance, navy,
union, association, band.  A collective noun is always singular in form.
 When it refers to a group a a unit, it takes a singular verb;  when it
refers to the individuals or items that make up the group, it takes a plural
verb.  So the answer would be "is".

Elle
elleboroom -at- aol -dot- com

From: dbdemyan @ worldnet.att.net ("David B. Demyan") @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 05:56:35 PM
Subject: Re: IS or ARE

John;

I like "data are" but I don't think many other writers do. It _does_
sound awkward but is grammatically correct.

Best,
Dave

From: Janet_Valade_at_SYSTECH @ skywalker.systech.com @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 01:48:39 PM
Subject: Re: IS or ARE

This is one with no good answer.  Technically, data are.  Data is a plural
word.  However, most people stumble when they read it.  It just doesn't sound
right.  I think "data is" is becoming acceptable terminaology.  But I'm not
sure.  I still say data are.  I do a lot of data analysis consulting,  SPSS
work, and research report writing for social science researchers (my research
analyst life which runs parallel to my technical writer life).

Note:  My email return address is broken.  I cannot post to the list right now
and if you reply, I will not receive the message.  My correct address is below.

Janet

Janet Valade
Technical Writer
Systech Corp, San Diego, CA
Janet_Valade -at- systech -dot- com

From: writer @ DHC.NET (Buck & Tilly Buchanan) @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 05:40:44 PM
Subject: Re: IS or ARE

Microsoft Manual of Style, despite my many disagreements with it,
answers almost all my questions like this one.

It only costs $22.95 at Amazon Books.

 They say/he says:

DATA  Use as either singular or plural, but always with a single verb.
Do not use daturm or data are.


Buck Buchanan
writer -at- dhc -dot- net
Arlington, TX

From: jltw @ earthlink.net (Julia Land) @ smtp
Date: 05/29/97 06:36:23 PM
Subject: Re: IS or ARE

Usually I just lurk, because someone else is expressing my thoughts as
well, or even better than I. But this time...

The consencus seems to be "is," but I disagree. It depends on how the
term data is being used, and it depends on the audience.

To quote _The Gregg Reference Manual_,
>>The noun _data_, which is plural in form, is commonly followed by a
plural verb in technical and scientific usage. In general usage, _data_
in the sense of "information" is followed by a singular verb; in the
sense of "distinct bits of information," it is followed by a plural
verb.
<<

"Data is" sounds better to me, too, but not to my clients, primarily
geophysical companies. For them, data are. It's probably because they
are acutely aware of the millions of "distint bits of information" that
comprise their data.

Now, someone tell me. Did I use "comprise" properly there?

Julia Land
jalnd -at- earthlink -dot- net (preferred)
jltw -at- earthlink -dot- net

From: bygravem @ INTUITIVE.CO.UK (Mike Bygrave) @ smtp
Date: 05/30/97 10:10:50 AM
Subject: Re: IS or ARE

Arlen and Ernie suggested that British audiences would expect to see =
data referred to as plural (because we do the same with other collective =
nouns).  Actually, in English, data is almost always used in a singular =
sense -- it's just another of our irregulars. =20

So, in English and American data is used as a singular -- that sounds =
fairly conclusive to me.

Cheers

Mike Bygrave (bygravem -at- intuitive -dot- co -dot- uk)
"1966 was a great year for English football - Cantona was born"
"I like deadlines.  I like the whooshing sound they make as they
fly by." - Douglas Adams

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