Re: Spaces after full stop

[poshedly -at- bellsouth -dot- net]

Uh-oh. I smell trouble.

Someone! Quickly read all the way to the bottom of this quoted message and then apolgize to heidi.

I've got work to do.

-- Ken in . . . well, never mind



-------------- Original message from "heidi arnold" <heidi -dot- w -dot- arnold -at- gmail -dot- com>: -------------- 


> i have not been included in this discussion and have made no 
> agreements of any kind. some of you know where i live. 
> 
> best regards, 
> 
> heidi 
> 
> On 10/8/07, brianlindgren -at- aol -dot- com wrote: 
> > Actually, typesetting had the rule of a single space after a period. It was 
> typewriting that had two spaces -- again, because of the monotype issue (Courier 
> font in the case of a typewriter). 
> > 
> > Not sure about the rule for old hot type typesetting, but for all electronic 
> typesetting, the rule was to use a single space after punctuation. 
> > 
> > Even if this is the rule, though, there are times -- as with any convention -- 
> that one needs to be flexible. For example, the rule to spell out numbers from 
> nine down but to use digits for 10 and above. If a number starts a sentence I 
> will generally spell it?out regardless of whether it exceeds 10, and for 
> technical measurements digits are used regardless of whether the number is nine 
> or less. 
> > 
> > Often I add hyphens to words to avoid confusion regardless of whether the 
> hyphen is necessary. I might need to tell someone that I "re-sent" a message so 
> they won't think I "resent" it. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: Lauren 
> > To: 'Dossy Shiobara' ; techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com 
> > Sent: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 3:03 pm 
> > Subject: RE: Spaces after full stop 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Dossy, 
> > 
> > You seem to imply that removing the extra space is a defect of word 
> > processing, but you fail to consider the fact that the addition of the extra 
> > space in early typesetting was to correct the defect of lost punctuation* 
> > because of how typesetters set type. 
> > 
> > I think that a better argument for the extra space could be made if 
> > pre-typesetting, handwritten script used extra space between sentences, but 
> > examples of handwritten documents before typesetting, like the 
> > Constitution**, do not show extra space. The fact that an extra space 
> > became necessary with typesetting is irrelevant when considered with script, 
> > so the rule of one space is correct, although I still use two. 
> > 
> > The example, "I went to the Dr. His name is Bob," does not really help the 
> > argument about using extra space between sentences because a proper sentence 
> > would contain an abbreviation of "doctor" as "Dr." when "Dr." is not used as 
> > a title for a person. Asking that we ignore the improper use of a title in 
> > the example does not help the argument because the error of why titles 
> > should not be used becomes entangled with the argument of why spaces should 
> > be used and creates confusion about why a convention is better than another. 
> > 
> > 
> > Titles that precede names must not have an extra space or any extra 
> > punctuation between the title and the name. As far as I know, the British 
> > standard is to not punctuate the title. Titles are not used as stand-alone 
> > words. If the title example was provided as an example of problems with an 
> > abbreviation at the end of a sentence, then we should discuss proper 
> > abbreviations. Proper abbreviations at the ends of sentences are no more 
> > confusing with or without extra space. 
> > 
> > Lauren 
> > 
> > * Near as I can recall, since I haven't read the typesetting rules in 16 
> > years, the rules of extra space were to account for the fragileness of 
> > punctuation with tails. Primarily, the purpose of the extra space was to 
> > distinguish periods and colons from commas and semi-colons, since tails of 
> > commas and semi-colons were fragile and would get lost, so the punctuation 
> > was easily confused. That problem no longer exists. 
> > 
> > ** The Constitution and other handwritten documents, 
> > http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/charters_downl 
> > oads.html. 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message----- 
> > > From: techwr-l-bounces+lt34=csus -dot- edu -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com 
> > > [mailto:techwr-l-bounces+lt34=csus -dot- edu -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com] On 
> > > Behalf Of Dossy Shiobara 
> > > Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 11:04 AM 
> > > To: techwr-l -at- lists -dot- techwr-l -dot- com 
> > > Subject: Re: Spaces after full stop 
> > > 
> > > I keep seeing two things mentioned in responses: 
> > > 
> > > 1) There's a reason to use two spaces after 
> > > periods--embedding semantic 
> > > information (i.e., end of sentence) in the data (the copy text). 
> > > 
> > > 2) Since the introduction of computerized word processing, 
> > > deficiencies 
> > > in implementations of word processors and layout engines 
> > > have caused 
> > > people to stop using two spaces after periods that end sentences. 
> > > 
> > > IMHO, #2 is a defect and needs to be corrected. Software should be 
> > > fixed so that end of sentence periods--those followed by a newline, or 
> > > two spaces--are laid out properly. Using only one space 
> > > loses valuable 
> > > semantic information. 
> > > 
> > > How is it valuable? While a human may be able to infer where 
> > > a sentence 
> > > ends, it's a much harder task for a computer. Take this sentence, for 
> > > example: 
> > > 
> > > "I went to the Dr. His name is Bob." 
> > > 
> > > One sentence? Or two? I'm pretty sure most humans can tell it's 
> > > supposed to be two. (Ignore arguments that "Dr." shouldn't have been 
> > > abbreviated there, and instead spelled out as "doctor".) 
> > > 
> > > However, think about the task for a computer: is this actually two 
> > > sentences, where the recommendation "expand 'Dr.' to 
> > > 'doctor'" should be 
> > > made, or is it one single grammatically incorrect sentence? If there 
> > > were two spaces following "Dr.", the added semantic 
> > > information encoded 
> > > in the data would disambiguate the sentence in a way that the software 
> > > could handle very easily. 
> > > 
> > > In the end, I still use two spaces after end of sentence 
> > > periods within 
> > > paragraphs because I find them more aesthetically pleasing that way. 
> > > It's just a pity that a deficiency in the more common word processors 
> > > have driven others to abandon the practice. :-( 
> > > 
> > > -- Dossy 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Dossy Shiobara | dossy -at- panoptic -dot- com | http://dossy.org/ 
> > > Panoptic Computer Network | http://panoptic.com/ 
> > > "He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own 
> > > folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on." (p. 70) 
> > 
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> -- 
> www.heidiarnold.org 
> www.peaceraptor.blogspot.com 
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