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Subject:Re: Problems with Japanese-translated English From:"Bowes, Rebecca A" <Rebecca -dot- A -dot- Bowes -at- WGP -dot- TWC -dot- COM> Date:Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:59:52 -0500
Hi, Nana:
I'm new to Techwrl, too, so I'm sure there are others who can provide more
information than I. But here's a URL for a web site about English as a
second language: http://www.lang.uiuc.edu/r-li5/esl/ . Under the "Grammar
and Writing" link, there is a link to a "Guide to Grammar and Writing,"
which in turn has links to individual parts of speech with information about
their use. There is one on articles and determiners.
I was going to try to guess why we say "on" the monitor but "in" the window,
but I give up. Because when talking about a window in a building, we say
"on" (for example, there's a fly on the window) but when talking about a
user interface window, we say "in" the window. Maybe it's just a convention?
Or maybe it's because a user interface window is seen as a container, while
the window in the building is not. Sorry I can't be of more help!
By the way, your English is quite good.
Rebecca
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nana Kato [SMTP:nanakato -at- MA4 -dot- JUSTNET -dot- NE -dot- JP]
> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 1999 11:42 PM
> To: TECHWR-L -at- LISTSERV -dot- OKSTATE -dot- EDU
> Subject: Problems with Japanese-translated English
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
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> Hello to you TECHWR-L subscribers!
>
> I was allowed to join TECHWR-L only yesterday. Since I'm a VERY native
> Japanese translating Japanese technical manuals into English,
> I'm not sure if I'm an appropriate participant in this list.
> However, I believe some kind subscribers would help me
> and I may be able to offer some knowlege concerning
> matters of Japan or other things in return.
>
> I have typical problems in English that are often seen in
> Japanese-translated English. (Many of you may have
> seen funny (frustrating?) ones.) In addition to my shallow
> understanding of English, a major factor that makes us
> English hard to master is that we have few good reference
> books on writing English. Most of the English grammer books
> in Japanese are intended merely for students to get good grades in
> college entrance exams and are rarely practical. Even worse, with
> their word-by-word meaningless translation style, they often
> prohibit us from mastering natural flowing English.
>
> So I thought it is a good idea to study English with style books written
> by native writers for native writers and actually
> bought some. (Chicago Manual of Style, Style by Joseph M. Williams,
> The Elements of Technical Writing, etc.) They are very good books
> and helpful. However I have furhter elementary problems, which
> shall be naturally mastered by any naive people. I especially have
> troubles
> on
> use of definite/indefinite article and use of prepositions. English
> dictionaries help me a lot. But still they offer me only few examples.
> I cannot tell for sure why some nouns go without "the" while
> the same noun go with "the" in the same paragraph, or when descrbing
> a grahical interface software, why "monitor" go with
> "on" (on the monitor) while "window" and "dialog box" go with "in"?
>
> The reason why such kind of things are hard for me might have
> to do with my shallow knowlege on spoken English. But unfortunately
> I can rarely have a chance to practice spoken English here in Japan,
> I wish I could get reference books written by native people
> for people with this kind of problems.
>
> If any of you know books or other resources that will help me,
> please let me know and I will very much appreciate you.
>
> ---------------------
> Nana Kato
> nanakato -at- ma4 -dot- justnet -dot- ne -dot- jp
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
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> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3DcsISO2022JP" =
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> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hello to you TECHWR-L subscribers!</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I was allowed =
> to join=20
> </FONT><FONT size=3D2>TECHWR-L only yesterday. Since I'm a VERY=20
> native</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Japanese translating Japanese technical manuals into =
>
> English,</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I'm not sure =
> if I'm an=20
> appropriate participant in this list. </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>However, I believe some kind =
> subscribers would=20
> help me</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2>and I may be =
> able to offer=20
> some knowlege concerning </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>matters of =
> Japan or other=20
> things in return.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I have typical problems in English =
> that are=20
> often seen in </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Japanese-translated English. (Many =
> of you may=20
> have</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2>seen funny =
> (frustrating?)=20
> ones.) In addition to my shallow</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>understanding =
> of English, a=20
> major factor that makes us </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2>English hard =
> to master is=20
> that we have few good reference </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>books on writing English. Most of the English =
> grammer=20
> books</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>in Japanese are intended merely for students to get =
> good=20
> grades in </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>college entrance exams and are rarely practical. =
> </FONT><FONT=20
> size=3D2>Even worse, with</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>their word-by-word meaningless translation style, =
> they often=20
> </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>prohibit us from mastering natural flowing=20
> English.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>So I thought it is a good idea to study English with =
> style=20
> books written </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>by native </FONT><FONT size=3D2>writers for native =
> writers and=20
> actually </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>bought some. </FONT><FONT size=3D2>(Chicago Manual =
> of Style,=20
> Style by Joseph M. Williams, </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>The Elements of </FONT><FONT size=3D2>Technical =
> Writing, etc.)=20
> They are very good books</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>and helpful. However I have furhter elementary =
> problems,=20
> which</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>shall be naturally mastered by any naive people. I =
> especially=20
> have troubles on</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>use of definite/indefinite article and use of =
> prepositions.=20
> English</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>dictionaries help me a lot. But still they offer me =
> only few=20
> examples.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I cannot tell for sure why some nouns go without=20
> "the" while </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>the same noun go with "the" in the same =
> paragraph,=20
> or when descrbing </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>a grahical interface software, why =
> "monitor" go=20
> with</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>"on" (on the monitor) while =
> "window" and=20
> "dialog box" go with "in"?</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>The reason why such kind of things are hard for me =
> might=20
> have</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>to do with my shallow knowlege on spoken English. =
> But=20
> unfortunately </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I can </FONT><FONT size=3D2>rarely have a chance to =
> practice=20
> spoken English here in Japan, </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I wish I could =
> get reference=20
> books written by native people </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2>for people =
> with this kind of=20
> problems.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>If any of you know books or other =
> resources that=20
> will help me,</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2>please let me =
> know and I=20
> will very much appreciate you.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>---------------------<BR>Nana =
> Kato<BR><A=20
> href=3D"mailto:nanakato -at- ma4 -dot- justnet -dot- ne -dot- jp">nanakato -at- ma4 -dot- justnet -dot- ne -dot- jp</A>=
> </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV>
> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
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> From ??? -at- ??? Sun Jan 00 00:00:00 0000=
> =
>
